Essential meaning of houses according to Morin 1 by damon Hi I like Morins logical approach to charts. Too many astrology cookbooks refer to the sun in 8th house as the death of our fathr,partner etc. See below his thoughts on this: It should be made clear that in a birth horoscope the essential meaning of a house is an accidental thing which in itself pertains to the native alone and to no other person?that is, the meaning of the first house is the physical constitution, character, and temperament of the native alone and not of another; the meaning of the twelfth house is the illnesses of the native and not of any other; the significance of the eighth house is the death of the native and not of any other; and so on for the remaining houses. Therefore a planet, sign, or aspect in any house has reference to its essential meanings for that native and pertains to him alone; and so, a planet in the seventh would have significance for the marriage, litigations and enemies of that native but not of any other person. Hence it is clear how much the ancients were in error when they took no notice of this fact, and when from the eighth house they passed judgments on the death of the native's parents, spouse, children, servants, and friends and enemies alike, for they claimed that if, for example, the ruler of the fifth were in the eighth, or the rulers of both these houses were in square or opposition to each other, the death of the children would be signified. And by the same token, if the ruler of the eighth were conjunct the ruler of the seventh, the death of the spouse would be shown, or if conjunct the ruler of the fourth, the death of the parents. Similarly, if the ruler of the fifth were in the tenth, honor and position would be indicated for the children, or if the ruler of the third were in the tenth, the same for the brothers. However, the eighth and the tenth refer only to the death or honors of the native and not of any other person, for the reasons given above. Quote Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:30 pm
2 by Mark Damon, If you are going to quote astrological sources like this members appreciate the title, and page reference at the end of the quote. Also its better to differentiate your text from that you are quoting by using the quote function on the forum. You simply highlight the block of text concerned and hit quote. As you will see I have done that for you already but please try and do this yourself in future. Mark Last edited by Mark on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:53 pm
3 by damon ah ok didnt know its the same book 21 the only i have page 100 http://www.astroclassic.org/text-trad/MorinJ.pdf Quote Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:00 pm
4 by Mark Damon wrote: ah ok didnt know its the same book 21 the only i have page 100 Yeah fine. I was just letting you know. If people read this in 6 months time they wouldn't have known about the source being Book 21 since you referred to it on another thread on the forum. Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:02 pm
5 by pankajdubey for even if the Moon were ruler of the fourth house and therefore significator of the parents and the mother in particular, it is still located in the seventh house and by this determination through location refers more clearly to the wife than to the mother; and so on for the other planets and houses Morin is interesting in many ways. First the method of differentiating between the house rulership,placement and natural rulership but also taking 4th house as mother. PD Quote Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:42 pm
6 by Tom Traditionally since the 4th is "ancestry" it represents both parents. But when it is necessary to differentiate the mother and father, then the 10th would be the mother (7th of the 4th). Astrology was never politically correct. Quote Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:38 pm
7 by johannes susato Tom wrote:Traditionally since the 4th is "ancestry" it represents both parents. But when it is necessary to differentiate the mother and father, then the 10th would be the mother (7th of the 4th). Astrology was never politically correct. Do you know Morin's explanation of his dissenting opinion, Tom, or: does he give any at all? Johannes Quote Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:41 pm
8 by pankajdubey Tom wrote:Traditionally since the 4th is "ancestry" it represents both parents. But when it is necessary to differentiate the mother and father, then the 10th would be the mother (7th of the 4th). Astrology was never politically correct. Thanks. Morin goes on to say: Second. It is wise to consider carefully what combinations are possible for the meanings of the different houses. For when the ruler of the fourth is in the fifth one would not say that the native's father will become his son, as this is an impossibility; but we might say that the father will be of benefit to the native's sons, Does Morin specifically say anywhere that mother is 4th and father is 10th ? or what exactly is he trying to say here in this book 21. I think he got carried away by his dislike of his mother: When he was twelve years old both of his parents became ill at the same time?his mother in childbirth from which she later died, and his father from a fever from which he was not expected to recover. During this time his older brother asked him which of his parents he would rather see die and Morinus said he would prefer that his father should live. His brother repeated the conversation to his mother who from that instant until she died two days later wanted to disinherit him, and refused to give him her final blessing. The local priests, however, reminding her about the state of her soul, finally persuaded her to give this blessing and to allow him to inherit at least the minimum legal amount. Morinus later noted that his sister received three times what he did and his brother even more than that. I think we should read Morin in the context of the Foreword of Book 21. PD Quote Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:23 am
9 by Tom Does Morin specifically say anywhere that mother is 4th and father is 10th ? Not that I know of. Although we probably have close to all of the astrology portions of AG translated into English, the rest is devoted to the philosophy behind it, we don't have all of it. or what exactly is he trying to say here in this book 21. In that section he is explaining how to combine the meanings of the planets, rulers and houses. He is only noting that some combinations are clearly absurd, for example having the ruler of the 4th in the 5th cannot mean the natives father will become the native's son. But (my example) having the ruler of the native's 9th in the 7th could mean the native will marry a foreigner. Lilly made a similar observation when he said, "Combine discretion with art." I think he got carried away by his dislike of his mother: Exactly I think we should read Morin in the context of the Foreword of Book 21. I have both the Little translation (Astrosynthesis) and the Baldwin, but my copy of Baldwin does not have a Forward. It's old. Which edition are you referring to? Quote Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:22 pm
10 by pankajdubey The link that damon referred to: http://www.astroclassic.org/text-trad/MorinJ.pdf It has a nice translators foreword. PD Quote Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:50 pm
11 by Tom Thanks. That is part of my book. I just didn't remember it and unfortunately for me, my copy is falling apart anyway. Time for a new one. Thanks for the tip. Quote Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:55 pm
12 by johannes susato pankajdubey wrote:Morin goes on to say: Second. It is wise to consider carefully what combinations are possible for the meanings of the different houses. For when the ruler of the fourth is in the fifth one would not say that the native's father will become his son, as this is an impossibility; but we might say that the father will be of benefit to the native's sons, Does Morin specifically say anywhere that mother is 4th and father is 10th ? PD, could not your quotation be taken as (a rather) specific statement for 4th = parents AND father? The other quotation you give, Moon as ruler of the 4th ( = mother) in the 7th, is a special one and resembles another (here not yet quoted, but see below) example in Book 21, where the Moon, Lady of the 4th, is in the 12th of Morin's own Horoscope. Morin argues the Moon as Lady of the 4th, is signifying the parents, but here especially the mother because the Moon is a female planet and is in a female sign (Pisces). But I see this not as the proof you (and me too!) are looking for. Johannes Last edited by johannes susato on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total. Quote Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:32 pm