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Quake Disaster
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:08 pm    Post subject: Quake Disaster Reply with quote

Below is the chart for the terrible earth quake.

According to the most reliable sources the rupture occurred at 7:58:53 am (local time at epicentre = 0:58:53 UT), on Sunday 26/12/04, nine kilometres southeast of the Northern Sumatra town of Padang Sidempuan, Indonesia (99e16 / 1n22 00)



Besides the angular and prominent malefic contacts, it’s worth noting the planetary contacts to fixed stars. All of those within 1 degree orb are connected to alpha stars, which might explain the horrific level of significance in this chart:

Moon = Betelgeuse (principal star of Orion, traditionally associated with violent storms) + Polaris (principal star of Ursa Minor, generally said to cause sickness, trouble and many afflictions)

Mars = Bungula (principal star of Centauris, according to Ebertin ‘periods of storm and stress’)

Saturn = Procyon (principal star of Canis Minor, associated with drowning)

Uranus = Formalhaut (principal star of Piscis Austrinus, associated with gain or disaster from the sea according to ancient authors)

Pluto = Ras Alhague (principal star of Ophiuchus, generally unfortunate, associated with medicine and reputed by Pliny to cause much mortality by poisoning).
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking at this chart on and off for the last few days and it is quite interesting. But what I also find interesting is the chart for the first hit of the wave, which was two and a half hours after the earthquake. This is when the destruction really took place. From what I could find, the first place to take the force was Banda Aceh in Indonesia. Sri Lanka was the worst affected with the greatest loss of life.

The chart I am using for this is set at Bandu Aceh (-7hrs) with a time of 10.30am. Mars is angular on the MC and Uranus is angular on the Ascendant. I guess I am looking at the first chart as a commencement chart (the event that set everything in motion) and the second chart as the disaster chart. Just a thought though.
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Ben



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

I wanted to let you know I have posted an article on the tsunami on my website (www.bendykes.com). I use medieval methods to delineate the situation (including the situation with international aid and disease), and I think you might find it interesting. I would note that medieval techniques use ingress charts instead of charts set for the time of a disaster like this, and you can get very good results that way. One medieval technique predicts the disaster on 12/27/04, one day from the actual date; and another predicts early March (which says to me that disease and famine may worsen then).

Best,
Ben Ddykes
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Deb
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Location: England

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ben,

I found your article very interesting, especially as a demonstration of technique, but it sounds like you see no value in studying the charts of the events themselves. I also notice that you don’t integrate modern influences at all. Do you not consider it beneficial to review the correlations of transits? Sue has mentioned how the first ‘hit’ occurred as Uranus and Mars had moved to the angles and I find that to be, potentially, very significant.

A few days ago I read that the tsunami had become the world’s 4th worst natural disaster in modern history. I was looking at the dates of the other recent disasters, primarily to consider the relationship between the Sun and Moon. A correlation has to be expected to some extent because of the increased gravitational strain at these times, but would this also apply to disasters borne from earth movements and quakes? I suppose so, but don’t know if it’s something that’s accepted officially.

The Mars-Uranus connection in the other charts does seem to be very striking, and I would have thought worthy of research by those with more access to relevant data. This is how it applies to the other major disaster incidences.

1. Yangtze River Floods – 1931
This is recorded as the worst natural disaster of modern times. From the information I’ve gathered on the internet, there was heavy rainfall during July and August and the devastating flood broke on 31 August. The Moon had passed opposition and without exact times it’s hard to know whether a Sun-Moon opposition was still ‘within orb’, but Mars at 18 Libra was exact in its opposition of Uranus at 18 Aries on that date.

2. Tidal Wave in East Pakistan – 1970
Over 200, 000 people died and over 100,000 went missing from the Bay of Bengal as a result of a Cyclone driven-tidal wave on 13th November. I don’t have times but the noon chart for the area shows the Moon conjunct Saturn at 19 Taurus, opposing the Sun at 20 Scorpio. Mars, at 15.06 Libra was conjunct Uranus at 11.39 Libra.

3. Yangtze Floods – 1975
5th August - 63 dams failed, and the floods killed up to 200,000 people. (This was the last time Saturn was retrograde at 25 Cancer). The relationship between Mars and Uranus is less striking but Uranus, at 28 Libra, was on the degree of the nodes, and Mars, at 23 Taurus was inconjunct Uranus and conjunct the South Node. Saturn was also square Uranus. I don’t know the time but it was the period of a new – or to be more technically correct – ‘old’ Moon.

The next worst disaster after this recent Tsunami was the floods that occurred in the Red River Delta area of North Vietnam, killing 100,000. I only know that this occurred in August 1971, at which time Mars, retrograde in Aquarius, was trine of Uranus at 11 Libra. (19 degrees at the start of the month, 12 degrees at the end of the month).


Also, earlier this year we had destructive floods in Haiti which started on May 18th. The Sun and Moon were conjunct and Mars, at 7 Cancer, was on the trine of Uranus, at 6 Pisces. Of course, this is all too limited to draw conclusions, but time and again Uranus is closely tied to Mars and/or Saturn for events of devastating eruption or collapse. I for one would like to see much less attention given to astrological ‘research’ of a personal/sun-sign nature, and more attention given to collating the significance of these kinds of interplays.
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Ben



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,

Thanks for reading the article, I'm glad you liked it. Here are a few thoughts, somewhat disconnected...

I used only the ingress chart mainly because I was trying to see what results I got if I was a purist about traditional mundane astrology. As a medieval astrologer, that's also why I didn't look at modern planets.

The issue of transits is interesting. In medieval astrology they tend to be used in mainly two ways: (a) in mundane astrology, when you look to mutual aspects between the superior planets (e.g., Saturn-Mars conjunctions in Cancer) and to cast charts for the entrance of the sun into the cardinal signs; and (b) to fine-tune what's already predicted by another technique, like primary directions or solar returns. They can be used for other purposes, but probably the inaccuracies in their ephemerides made them use other techniques instead.

I'm not aware of medievals using transits to fine-tune ingress charts, but since they did so using solar returns I don't see why one couldn't do the same with ingresses.

I don't pay attention to Uranus, but the idea that mutual transits between Uranus and Mars could trigger disasters is tantalizing.

I'm not so sure about the Mars-Uranus connection with the angles, though. They are on the angles by primary motion (the daily rotation of the heavens), but at any moment in time they will be on an angle somewhere in the world, and not every place in the world has tsunamis. So it doesn't seem predictive, because it isn't based on a fixed chart that predicts a specific effect. If at the time they bore an aspect to an ingress chart that predicted disaster, I would take that as much more significant for predictive purposes.

For instance, the ingresses for many of those countries have Cancer rising, with Saturn in the 1st and the degree of the Saturn-Mars conjunction in the 1st. This predicts death and disaster for the people. Mars is square Uranus, which would not be good, and I do note that transiting Mars squared Uranus a week after the tsunami. The ingress Uranus is in the 9th and Mars in the 12th, which seems to have more to do with foreigners and the king's enemies. Is that significant? I don't know.

Thanks for the information on the other floods. Maybe there is a way to combine traditional mundane astrology with transits of the modern superior planets. Sounds like an interesting project!

Ben
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is one huge earthquake that you missed. Somewhere in north east China in 1976 there was a staggering earthquake that swallowed up an entire large city. I believe there were over 300,000 people killed but the event never received internaltional coverage because China's communist government covered it up. This was at the end of Chairman Mao's life and during the time of the radical Gang of Four. I have seen some film clips of it and it was horrible. This one caused the earth to collapse downwards and like I said literally swallowed up the city. I'll try to find the name of the city and the time if possible.
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:

I for one would like to see much less attention given to astrological ‘research’ of a personal/sun-sign nature, and more attention given to collating the significance of these kinds of interplays.


I could not agree more with this. Not only is it fascinating but it has the potential to be of great benefit to humankind. I read somewhere recently that the early warning systems did not reach to these areas most affected. Apparently the earthquake was recorded and the people at the centre frantically tried to contact authorities in the area to no avail. With a warning immediately after the earthquake, they would have had two and a half hours to reach higher ground. Wouldn't it be good if we could understand upcoming potentials by studying the astrological indicators long before they occured?

Mars and Uranus appear prominently time and time again in disaster charts, so much so that it is always the first thing I look for whenever I draw up a new chart. Of course, it won't always be there but the frequency is way beyond coincidence. I read something recently by Ann Parker that Mars, Uranus and Pluto are the big three in charts of this nature. It seems that Uranus features prominently in 'record setting' events.

I agree that there has to be some correlation between the Sun and the Moon in these charts. I have come to realise that the Moon, in particular, is highly relevent. I haven't looked closely at it yet but I have been looking at what some others have to say. Ken Ring is a New Zealand weather forecaster. He is not an astrologer but is very open to it. He has a very interesting website that is definitely worth checking out if you are interested in mundane astrology. It is www.predictweather.com Check out the article 'A case for the Moon.' Fascinating.

Anyway, he has shown that most of the disasterous weather is related to certain phases, aspects etc of the Moon. He is particularly interested in the apogee/perigee position. He claims that the greatest number of cyclones, hurricanes, volcanic erruptions, earthquakes, floods, etc., occur at either apogee or perigee. In particular, perigee brings stormy weather. Coupled with a full or new Moon, this can lead to some dangerous conditions. Apparently, most earthquakes occur at a full or new Moon. And, of course, these phases of the Moon relate directly to its relationship with the Sun.

I haven't had a chance to check out any of these theories yet but thought I'd just mention it. Carolyn Egan is an astrologer from the US who is one of the top astrologers specialising in weather forecasting. She and Ken Ring have exchanged ideas and theories and have found themselves in constant agreement.


Last edited by Sue on Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkF wrote:
I think there is one huge earthquake that you missed. Somewhere in north east China in 1976 there was a staggering earthquake that swallowed up an entire large city. I believe there were over 300,000 people killed but the event never received internaltional coverage because China's communist government covered it up.


Hi Mark,

This is one quake that I have in my files. The quake was at Tangshan in China and occured on July 28th 1976 at 3:42am. An estimated 240,000 people were killed.

When I started collecting earthquake files I was amazed at just how many there were that caused huge losses of life. We tend to get desensitised to it all somehow unless it is exceptionally catastrophic (as was the latest one). It was on the same day in 2003 (26th Dec) that an earthquake in Bam killed 41,000 people.
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Tumbling Sphinx



Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 247

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to all the excellent information above, the lunar phase & eclipse cycle, CNN reports had the Tsunami strike just before 7am (local time - Banda Aceh, Indonesia) ... chart for Banda Aceh 7am local time on 26 Dec. 04 had Sun rising to inconjunct fixed star ‘Praesaepe’.

Another date that may also be worth looking at is 28 Jan. 2005 - for Baghdad & USA.

In appreciation, TS.
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haku



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 142

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am very impressed by this prediction, based on "supermoon" (which i do not understand) http://www.astropro.com/forecast/predict/2004-12.html

moon at 28 gemini was also the case at 9/11, but also during the big krakatao explosion of 1883. (and it's the position of my own natal moon and MC Confused). Polaris is onsidered a malefic, but I thought Betelgeuse was seen as benevolent.
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperMoon is a term coined by Richard Nolle that basically means when a new or full Moon coincides with it's perigee. This is supposed to be a potentially destructive time. The next one occurs on January 10th at 20 degrees Capricorn, (right on my Saturn) and is also the closest to earth the Moon has been since 1993. Many forecasters (including Ken Ring) believe that this has the potential to cause an earthquake with a lot of destruction. This is particularly true for the southern hemisphere.
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haku



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 142

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you for that explanation.

and I would be interested to hear what you think about the link some make between the tsunami and the newly found Sedna, mythologically linked to the sea, and currently making an inconjunct with jupiter
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I have heard that Sedna ‘caused’ this earthquake. I don’t think much of this at all to be honest. I know nothing about Sedna and it isn’t something I have even really thought about. My time is full enough trying to understand the major planets we generally use in the mundane charts. We know virtually nothing about Sedna so how can we possibly hope to understand its part in a catastrophe like the tsunami.
Sedna is the most distant object we know of. It is at least three times the distance from Earth than Neptune or Pluto is. The Moon is our closest object. We can see it and watch its phases. We can feel its effects. (I find it very difficult to sleep on a full Moon.) Even non-astrologers/astronomers know about gravitational pull. Information about the Moon has been recorded for thousands of years. It is totally beyond me to understand how astrologers can look to something like Sedna to explain this catastrophe while ignoring what is right in front of them.
I consider myself a traditional astrologer and most of the time I don’t use the outer three planets. However, in mundane astrology I have seen enough evidence to suggest to me that they do play a part, particularly Uranus. There are astrologers who have done the research over many years and reached these conclusions. But where is the research on Sedna to make such a statement? This seems to happen every time there is a new discovery. It certainly happened with Chiron. I have to wonder whether it is because people fail to take the time to really understand the deeper meanings of what we already have. If they cannot see an immediate explanation staring them in the face, they start looking elsewhere. Cookbook explanations will never suffice in charts of this nature. We have to take the time to look more deeply into how it all plays out with what is right in front of us. I find mundane charts fascinating. We have a chart of a particular event that happened. That it happened is a fact so there is no disputing the chart. But working out how it all played out in the chart is the fascinating bit. It’s like those murder shows you see where they have gathered the whole group in the room and you know that each one of them took part in the murder but have to unravel exactly what the relationship was between the group and how that relationship caused the murder. Now all we have to do is learn to do it prior to the event thereby preventing the murder in the first place.
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Deb
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto to everything Sue has said here. I saw Jonathan Cainier on prime time TV last week, where most of his feature focussed on his assertion that the tsunami disaster was a result of the discovery of Sedna. I wondered how many viewers felt (like I did) that it was tasteless to see a celebrity astrologer pumping himself up on the back of such a disaster with nothing more than a speculative theory that has no testing or evidence.

By comparison I was impressed by Robert Nolle’s prediction which is linked to in Haki’s post above. The general public aren’t aware of the difference in effort and detail that exists between astrologers who are scrutinising a lot of complex factors to make sensible judgements before the event, and those of popular astrologers who cling to the most simplistic level of detail that can be appreciated by the widest number of people after the event. As a result, this theoretical link with Sedna will undoubtedly become very widespread.

(I’m also impressed by the very sensitive way Richard Nolle assessed his prediction in hindsight. I think this disaster has left most of the world feeling humbled, so it seems quite inappropriate for any astrologer to use it to trumpet their own abilities.)
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Jessica Adams



Joined: 10 Jan 2005
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Location: Brighton UK and Bellingen Australia

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:08 pm    Post subject: The Guardian's attacks on astrology, post tsunami Reply with quote

To view Catherine Bennett's original attack in The Guardian, cross to the online version of the newspaper. It follows another anti-astrology piece which ran a few months before, by another journalist.

I've written this letter back. They may not publish it, but I thought it might add something new to your shared discussion about tsunami predictions. The point The Guardian (and everyone) usually misses is that astrology is question based. If you ask the question, you'll probably get the answer, but who (apart from local astrologers) was asking specifically about either a) earthquakes or b) Sri Lanka, Thailand and Indonesia, on December 26th 2004? Anyway. Here's the letter!


To the Letters Editor, The Guardian.

In response to recent anti-astrology articles in The Guardian, here are some public predictions astrologers made about Boxing Day and December 2004:

Richard Nolle wrote that there would be risk of storms, flooding and seismic upheaval, associated with the full moon on December 26th.

Jean Hinson Lall wrote that on Boxing Day the world would be schooled in the laws of water.

Lynda Hill wrote that Saturn was returning to a fateful degree at the end of 2004, noting that the last time this happened, hurricanes ravaged Florida and there were earthquakes in Japan and floods in New Zealand.

Lisa Dale Miller wrote that Boxing Day would open the way for globalising strong emotions.

When former Cambodian king Norodom Sihanouk asked about the future of his country, he says he was warned of the tsunami by his astrologer.

I write the monthly horoscope column for international editions of Cosmopolitan and Vogue, and a blog, The Astrologer’s Diary:

December 14th - “Has there ever been an end of year detox quite like the one we are seeing in 2004? In true Plutonian fashion, it is the kind of rubbish removal that takes weeks as well. If you are dreaming about decaying food, flies, corpses, dying (keep going it gets better) horse shit, poison or gigantic bombs – well. Welcome to the world of Pluto.”

December 16th - “A whole lot of shaking is going on this December. Not to mention a whole lot of wobbling on the spot. An unexpected event (the equivalent of a giant hand shaking up the snowdome of your life, or a huge lightning bolt suddenly hitting your cornflakes) may do the deed.”

December 26th – “ You may very well experience Boxing Day just like a real-life boxing match.”

The second entry, on December 16th, drew a reply from a woman whose family had lost everything in the tsunami, and who recognised herself in the forecast.

The astrologer Richard Nolle is in the business of predicting earthquakes and so he was able to say something specific about December 26th. Other astrologers are required to forecast the zeitgeist in a more general way. Across the board last month, a signficant number of us got it right, in those general terms our readers expect.

Jessica Adams
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