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Quickie mystery chart from Trad forum
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Martin Gansten
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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Location: Malmö, Sweden

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
I think the crux lies with the detriment concept and special aspects.
In the chart above, is the 10th lord Mars in detriment and does Saturn aspect Mars.

From my point of view, yes, Mars and Saturn are in trine aspect (mutual -- there are no one-way aspects in 'western' or Tajika astrology), albeit separating. I see detriment (or exile) as a rather mild debility, nothing like fall, and would think it more relevant that Mars is (or has been?) received by Saturn by exaltation.

Quote:
That avoids the detriment conundrum and could swap varshaphala for vimshottari but how do you treat the 7th house aspect.

I still look at dashas from time to time, though they are not the top layer of my toolbox. As for aspects, what you call a 7th house aspect would be an opposition to me, either by sign or by degree. Do you mean whether I consider it an evil/hostile/difficult aspect? To that I would answer yes, though qualified by the natures, dignities and rulerships of the planets involved.
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
I think the crux lies with the detriment concept and special aspects. In the chart above, is the 10th lord Mars in detriment and does Saturn aspect Mars.


For the aspect, Saturn does aspect Mars: in Western by a sinister trine, in Jyotish by a 50% aspect (Parashara BPHS Ch 26.2-5, Varahamihira BJ Ch 2.13).

I understood your question about the 7th aspect the same way as Martin - do you agree with him that it should eb considered difficult, or just a contact?

Graham
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom has posted result and bio details (and lots about baseball!) on Traditional forum. Congratulations to GR. It's
Bobby Richardson
Aug 19, 1935
5:00 AM
Sumter, S.C USA
33 N 55
80 W 20

I didn't think to take up on the religious side of Jupiter. I wrote
Quote:
Jupiter aspect to 10: higher knowledge (University research?), teaching or the judiciary.
(The double aspect of Jupiter and Saturn, according to K.N. Rao, strengthens a house by the combination of the expansive nature of Jupiter and the concentrating nature of Saturn. It's supposed to be about bringing things to manifestation and realisation – it's considered a condition for childbirth). [...] There could be a strong Mars quality to his work/career, also Saturn, Jupiter and NN (which partakes of nature of Jupiter as it is alone in Sagittarius).


Maybe that NN from the hosue of service could have helped with his calling. With hindsight (oh so easy) I could have added that sidereally Jupiter is ruler of 9 and exaltation ruler of ASC (Cancer), aspecting Moon R1 in 10. As James has pointed out in Trad forum, tropically Jupiter is "a planet with a natural symbol for religion, conjunct mars [ruler of 9th]".
Graham
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin Gansten wrote:
When I began studying astrology for real almost 25 years ago, it was the classical Indian branch (jyotisha); but nowadays my approach is more Perso-Arabic in nature (with Indian and Greek ideas included, as they were in Baghdad 1200 years ago). Because I do basically Perso-Arabic astrology in a sidereal zodiac, I sometimes loosely identify my style of astrology as Tajika (Perso-Indian).


Martin - do you have any suggestions for reading on Tajika astrology? Would Benjamin's Dykes's annotated translations be good, or do I have to go to Indian books (groan...)?

Thanks for any pointers.

Graham
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham F wrote:
Martin - do you have any suggestions for reading on Tajika astrology? Would Benjamin's Dykes's annotated translations be good, or do I have to go to Indian books (groan...)?

Well -- Tajika is Indianized Perso-Arabic astrology, and in fact seems to depend largely on the writings of Sahl bin Bishr. So if you want to get an idea of the sources used by early Tajika authors, then yes, Ben Dykes's translations (particularly of Sahl) are very useful. But over the course of the centuries there have been changes, textual corruptions, reinterpretations and innovations, so what you find Indian Tajika practitioners doing today is not exactly 9th-century Perso-Arabic astrology. To get an idea of the later tradition, I'm afraid you'll have to go to the Indian books (and unless you read Sanskrit, most Indian translations are another major obstacle). I hope eventually to get funding for a major research project including the translation of an important Tajika work, but that will take a few years...
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham F wrote:
pankajdubey wrote:
I think the crux lies with the detriment concept and special aspects. In the chart above, is the 10th lord Mars in detriment and does Saturn aspect Mars.


For the aspect, Saturn does aspect Mars: in Western by a sinister trine, in Jyotish by a 50% aspect (Parashara BPHS Ch 26.2-5, Varahamihira BJ Ch 2.13).

I understood your question about the 7th aspect the same way as Martin - do you agree with him that it should eb considered difficult, or just a contact?

Graham


Graham,

Considering 50% aspects confuses the issue.Almost all traditional Jyotish would only deal with full aspects and then consider the effects of rulership of that planet generating a Yoga(special combination).

eg: any association of a kendra and a trikons(angle and a trine lord) confers a Raja Yoga(combination of power or influence).

So, for Libra lagna, Saturn itself is the yoga giving planet as it own the 4th(kendra) and a trine house(5th). Suppose Mars(7th lord and hence a kendra lord) aspects Mercury-9th lord by its 7th aspect or 8th aspect(eg: Merc in Gemini and Mars in scorpio or sagittarius) the this too is a Raja yoga fructifying in the Merc-Mars or Mars-Merc period.

When I am donning the Jyotish hat, 7th house aspect is not a malefic aspect.
Actually, in transit(Gochara) Jupiter in 7th from natal moon is considered very good but in 3rd from natal moon is considered bad.

There is another nadi astrology concept.

Capricorn lagna, jupiter in lagna- casts its 7th house aspect to 7th where cancer ,it's sign of exaltation is present- doing good for 7th house .

Cancer lagna, jupiter is good for the native bad for the wife because 7th house capricorn it's neecha sign and so on.

Tajika, treats aspects aspects slightly differently and more like current horary practise.
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