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Lot of Sexual Activity
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 367

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
I still maintain there is a strong connection with the 8th and sex

So do I actually. At least as much as death, even, though as you say, the two can be symbolically linked.
Graham
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 691

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
any particular reason why you decided to call Valens" blessed lot of marriage into lot of sexual activity.
sex outside of marriage was not unknown or looked badly upon in Valen"s time
Yet valens gave venus to wife.


Based upon me testing which lot to use when delineating marriages and relationships. I then stumbled across my views on this lot while studying the charts of peadophiles and then homosexual men as I have said in another thread.

Also, when I look to the symbolism of the planets involved, it strikes me that the Saturn/Venus lot is about committment to love or sex and bonding within parameters set by society or to do one's duty in continuing their line via reproduction. The other lot seems to be more about the masculine light with feminine sexuality and the converse for the female lot.

I'm quite prepared for this to be completely off-base but I don't think you can delineate someone's sexual deviance or "purity" from Venus/Mars or Venus/Saturn combinations alone. I wouldn't take the 7th house in isolation to signify anything either, so I was looking for something else to either solidfy these significations or contradict them. I also don't think the Lot of Marriage Contract is suited to show sexual behaviour for the reasons I mentioned above. As I said, I am completely ready for this to fail but I felt it worth sharing.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The l ot"s ruler will change from tropical to sidereal.So does this apply to sidereal or tropical methods.

And you save the Saturn from a lot of blushes.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it seems Rob Hand has discussed this before.
http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/robhand5.htm

PD
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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 470
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Bollixed Reply with quote

Good morning,

This thread, apparently a potpourri of systems, leaves me baffled, nay bollixed.

How is the specific lot (Hellenistic and / or Mediaeval) defined, please? Is the calculation the same for diurnal and nocturnal events?

Which topical place(s) indicate(s) sexual behaviour? Is 'the more, the merrier' from Indian, Hellenistic, Mediaeval and modern astrologies an optimal approach?

If one chooses to combine zodiacs, interpretations and techniques from, say, Indian and Mediaeval astrologies, according to what principles and rules, please?

Best regards,

lihin
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
it seems Rob Hand has discussed this before.
http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/robhand5.htm

PD


Ah thanks. Very nice. I'm pleased that Al-Biruni rpeorts this lot to be something similar to what I am finding as well as Robert Hand.

pankajdubey wrote:
The l ot"s ruler will change from tropical to sidereal.So does this apply to sidereal or tropical methods.

And you save the Saturn from a lot of blushes.


I use a Sidereal ayanamsa, so it isn't really my concern what it looks like in the Tropical zodiac. I haven't tested it out there.

I'm not understanding your Saturn comment, can you explain it?
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Bollixed Reply with quote

lihin wrote:
Good morning,

This thread, apparently a potpourri of systems, leaves me baffled, nay bollixed.

How is the specific lot (Hellenistic and / or Mediaeval) defined, please? Is the calculation the same for diurnal and nocturnal events?

Which topical place(s) indicate(s) sexual behaviour? Is 'the more, the merrier' from Indian, Hellenistic, Mediaeval and modern astrologies an optimal approach?

If one chooses to combine zodiacs, interpretations and techniques from, say, Indian and Mediaeval astrologies, according to what principles and rules, please?

Best regards,

lihin


I'm glad I have bollixed such a brain as yourself, Lihin. Smile

The lot is found in Valens' section of marriage (as I have already stated). It is different for males and females (male = Sun to Venus from ASC, female = Moon to Mars from ASC) and doesn't reverse at night. As for the claimed combination of methods, the ancients are constantly imploring us to apply the principles they set out with our own intelligence and, I presume, according to our own experience, I don't think they wanted us to follow them verbatim as that shows a lack of understanding of these principles and the finer points they were trying to convey. I want to understand not only what they said, but why and apply it in different contexts. I understand that you may just want a system to follow, my posts probably aren't for you then.

Saying that though, I am struggling to see the "potpourri" you do. If you don't like the sidereal zodiac being used, then this is the wrong place for you. For the rest, I am using rulerships, the concept of overcoming, the 7th house and a Lot related to it. It sounds like pretty basic stuff to me.
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're being driven out of the "traditional" forum and now getting criticised here for baffling tropicalists. This is getting ridiculous.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham F wrote:
We're being driven out of the "traditional" forum and now getting criticised here for baffling tropicalists. This is getting ridiculous.


Historically, same thing happened to Scots moving westward in USA Lala Happy
So move east and become a hellenistic astrologer of around 100-300AD
when the precession was close to zero.

@Konrad.

Normally, saturn gets all the blame for all thins bad.
You are his saviour.
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Martin Gansten
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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Location: Malmö, Sweden

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham F wrote:
Is using the 12th for "bed pleasures" strictly Indian?

It is, but the ironic thing is that, in the classical texts at least, the phrase (śayyā-sukha) seems to have nothing to do with sex and everything to do with the literal comfort of one's bed (and perhaps the quality of sleep).
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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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Location: Mount Kailash

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Mixing and matching systems Reply with quote

Good morning,

Thanks, Mr Konrad, for the references to the Hellenist Vettius Valens. Controversy abounds about which zodiac(s) he applied, mitigated by the near concurrence of the equal sign Aries with the same-named constellation during his times. From Valens' Anthologies, Book I, it seems at times very difficult if not impossible to ascertain if constellations and / or equal signs were meant. The degree totals per constellation (sign?) are not all 30.

The Lots Mr Konrad mentioned can also be found amongst the 7th topical place ones on page 285 of the Scottish Professor Robert Ramsay Wright's English translation of Shaikh Abu'l Rayhan Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Al-Biruni's The Book of Instruction in the Elements of the Art of Astrology. Of course the results obtained within Al-Biruni's system will differ materially from those in applying a different zodiac.

Which references, if any, to the two Lots can be quoted from Indian astrological sources?

Since there are many astrologies and, except in India, astrology today enjoys no academic protection and standards, i have no fundamental objections to any astrological school, provided it strives to be consistent within its own framework. I am aware that this thread in within the Sidereal section of the forum and respect this context.

However, mixing and matching concepts and techniques amongst various astrological systems add layers of complexities to already dense jungles. For me, an accurate compass and adequate light are required.

Best regards,

lihin
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
Normally, saturn gets all the blame for all thins bad.
You are his saviour.


Right, got ya. Happy to help though I feel he does have something to say here being opposed to the Lot and in his fall, I just can't be sure what without a better biography.
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Mixing and matching systems Reply with quote

lihin wrote:
Controversy abounds about which zodiac(s) he applied, mitigated by the near concurrence of the equal sign Aries with the same-named constellation during his times.


I am pretty sure most people accept he used a sidereal zodiac. At least I've never heard any cogent argument that he may have used a tropical zodiac. For example, really big clues that I think can hardly be ignored are: "Aries is by nature watery, with thunder and hail. From its first degree to the equinox, it is stormy, full of hail, windy, destructive." Though I do think that obviously there was clear tropical references as well. I think when it comes to measurement of planetary positions though, he used the sidereal zodiac.

I'm curious what arguments people might make to suggest he used a tropical one though.
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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Off topic? Reply with quote

Good morning,

Although perhaps interesting, a discussion about which zodiac(s) were used by Vettius Valens would, methinks, be off topic in this thread.

Best regards,

lihin
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Konrad



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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Off topic? Reply with quote

lihin wrote:
Good morning,

Although perhaps interesting, a discussion about which zodiac(s) were used by Vettius Valens would, methinks, be off topic in this thread.

Best regards,

lihin


Why do you want Indian references for Hellenistic lots?
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