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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Lucky to have Skyscript Reply with quote

I think sometimes we all forget how really great and lucky we are to be able to communicate across cultures and continents and receive immediate feedback!!

I fail to see the point of the arguments here regarding house systems used. In antiquity, Kings sent emissaries to other countries to collect knowledge and learn from other cultures and countries. The library at Alexandria had volumes from all over the known world. They WELCOMED others thoughts and ideas and that is how we all progressed in knowledge on this earth. They did not analyze it and say, our way it better, they took the best from all cultures and assimilate the best of ideas and techniques. The world would not have Arabic numerals, if all on this site were around at the time, they would get thrown out as being ridiculous because it was a different method and all types of arguing would ensue why NOT to adopt them.

Who cares what house system is used!! I would think the MAIN GOAL, is the be ACCURATE for the CLIENT!! I never hear that mentioned.

I for one really appreciate all the different techniques and other astrologers sharing what they do, what technique they use, and to see the techniques in ACTION via Mystery Charts. I learn quite a bit. The exchange of knowledge should be ENCOURAGED, not diminished or banned.

Someone may find a great technique that is accurate all the time, I would like the opportunity to learn that and test it myself.

Skyscript is the perfect forum just for that!! It is a crucible of sorts, in doing Mystery Charts. As clients never tell you whether you are wrong, they tell you about being right on this or that, but never if you are wrong. This is the perfect place for that, to get immediate feedback!! It is a gift to welcome, and accept. We won’t all get it right all the time, but we are honing our abilities and it is excellent practice and feeback!
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2897
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beautiful sentiment morning sun! i 2nd that!
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks James!
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 295

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Lucky to have Skyscript Reply with quote

MorningSun wrote:
As clients never tell you whether you are wrong, they tell you about being right on this or that, but never if you are wrong. !


Looks like you've targetted the non verbal or deaf and dumb market nicely!


Last edited by Nixx on Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 396

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello MorningSun

Re: "The library at Alexandria had volumes from all over the known world. They WELCOMED others thoughts and ideas and that is how we all progressed in knowledge on this earth. They did not analyze it and say, our way it better,..."

But wait, please... let's dissect this thought through analogy.

Let's say that 4 different astrologers showed up in antiquity, all professing that they have found "the way" to calculate the Ascendant. From the collectivist stance of your post, you're saying that they're all right or that something important is to be gained by having the 3 wrong methods stand beside the 1 correct method.

Re: House Systems

This isn't some subjective delineation idea that we are splitting hairs about. We are talking a means of MEASUREMENT. ie. just where IS that cusp, exactly?!

Since we're talking about a measurement, try your argument on other measured things...

Bob: That flagpole is 30 feet tall.

Lisa: That flagpole is 22 feet tall.

Jethro: That flagpole must be a mile tall.

To my mind, there are two possibilities here... either ONE of them is right... or NONE of them are right. There is no way I can see more than one of them being correct.

Same with House systems. (People can USE other house systems and many can still get other systems to "work" (especially those using less-precise methods/approaches such as delineation as opposed to dynamic timing), but in my opinion, the cusps actually ARE (each) at one particular location, definable in degrees, minutes and seconds.)

In the "Library of Alexandria" example, there were likely (at least) 10 varying opinions on most EVERYTHING. Yes, the varying perspectives might have warranted having the writings on hand, but can you really say that every question has 10 (different) right answers?

Some things are a thousand shades of grey...and some things are black and white. Sometimes wisdom is in knowing which is which. Those familiar with statistics and probability might be the persons to ask in case of doubt...

Don't misunderstand my thrust here... I am not saying "this way is the right and only way and so you must use it." I am merely saying that in well-timed (ie. accurate) birth charts, the topocentric cusps will respond more tightly in Primary Directions and Secondary Progressions than any of the other systems will. That doesn't make any of the others unusable, nor obsolete. I am wording this carefully to stay within the realm of what is demonstrable.

Take care

James
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Lucky to have Skyscript Reply with quote

MorningSun wrote:
... they took the best from all cultures and assimilated the best of ideas and techniques.


Hello Atlantean,

I do not disagree with what you have written, however the SPIRIT, of what I wrote is above. Take what works, but one has to be willing to see if the other methods may have some merit, without rejecting outright.

Nixx,

Really? You actually took the time just to post a snide remark? Some people are optimists and some pessimists. Some look to bring out the positive /good, and some will always look to find the negative. We clearly identify who we are by our comments.
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 295

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Lucky to have Skyscript Reply with quote

MorningSun wrote:



Really? You actually took the time just to post a snide remark? Some people are optimists and some pessimists. Some look to bring out the positive /good, and some will always look to find the negative. We clearly identify who we are by our comments.


I was thinking about the few hundred, maybe few thousand, folks over the years who have said this and that or that and this does not resonate with me., My experiential or anticipated, and I would suggest typical, is your snide by the looks of it.

We might be lacking a shared enough set of semantics, concepts and 'life' to progress the banter somewhere useful here methinks.

But your post did bring out my good side hopefully so thanks for that.
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zoomaster



Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 27
Location: Hyderabad, India

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by zoomaster on Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoomaster
Can you give a link or name a historian who said they used WSH?

thanks
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoomaster wrote:

I loathe to bring up Sun sign astrology, but you do have Libra as your avatar...and I can certainly sense much of the 'diplomacy at all costs' which is such an endearing trait of the Libra. I know the classical Libran hatred of confrontation and that the Libran archetype does its best to assuage fights and 'keep the peace,' but often, I wonder why.

Yet I would state (in a very civilized manner) that I do not believe there is anything wrong with conflict. In fact, I believe that conflict actually leads to further discovery.

I agree that it's wonderful that we have Skyscript. The members here are overall highly intelligent and well-spoken, especially compared to some of the other astrology forums out there.

I try my best to maintain a civil tone, even though regarding this topic, I am an unabashed fanatic.


Hello Zoomaster,

I appreciate your response, and respect your views. And yes you do try to keep a civil tone which is great and sometimes difficult here.

Obviously you like to use WSH, I fail to see a problem with that. I would like to see everyone use the house system they prefer, and we can all observe how they work, rather then being censured.

Most people here have a favorite, I fail to see why anyone would want to force their system on any other. Eventually if that system worked most of the time, people would migrate to it as a natural outcome of observing the results.

I appreciate your comments regard my being Libra, and yes I am, very much so. I would prefer a utopian world where everyone had someone to love, and was loved by others, had a nice house and yard/ enjoyed their career, no worries for food, shelter or clothing, had plenty of love, laughter, happiness and music in their lives. That is my wish for everyone!!

But NEVER underestimate a Libran. Remember, Saturn is EXALTED in Libra. Think Maggie Thatcher and Faulklands. No problem going to battle, particularly, if an injustice, unfairness, bullying, etc, is done to another! Also fight to extreme to protect loved ones. Librans, myself and many others I know, love a good debate!! Love the mental stimulation, and many do not by any means back down from a fight. That part of the Libra Sun sign I don't think quite fits.

Thank you for your comments and thoughts!
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 295

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MorningSun wrote:


But NEVER underestimate a Libran. Remember, Saturn is EXALTED in Libra. Think Maggie Thatcher and Faulklands. No problem going to battle, particularly, if an injustice, unfairness, bullying, etc, is done to another! Also fight to extreme to protect loved ones. Librans, myself and many others I know, love a good debate!! Love the mental stimulation, and many do not by any means back down from a fight. That part of the Libra Sun sign I don't think quite fits.




Perhaps the more usual take these days is Saturn is exalted there as social interactions require rules and boundaries.

Protecting love ones is also conceptually leftfield as Libra is an Air sign, so love and protection are not usually feelings associated with it. Cerebral love perhaps, whatever this is.

As it is the only sign without any human or animal symbolism it is seen by some, or many, as the 'cruellest' or potentially of the 12. (Although Capricorn and Gemini tend to be up there in this respect, these 2 in the 20th century at least get a very bad press). Hitler's Velvet Fist in an Iron Glove Asc is often used to expand on, or clarify, this. Librans do not like to get their own hands dirty, avoid conflict!
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varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 320
Location: Lemuria

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: Lucky to have Skyscript Reply with quote

MorningSun wrote:


The world would not have Arabic numerals, if



Hello MorningSun,

To clarify, the Arabic numeral system:

"...is a positional decimal numeral system developed...by Indian mathematicians."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral_system

Or alternatively, the so-called Arabic numerals:

"...are descended from the...numeral system developed by Indian mathematicians..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

cheers
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: Delhi

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atlantean wrote:
Hello MorningSun

Re: "The library at Alexandria had volumes from all over the known world. They WELCOMED others thoughts and ideas and that is how we all progressed in knowledge on this earth. They did not analyze it and say, our way it better,..."

But wait, please... let's dissect this thought through analogy.

Let's say that 4 different astrologers showed up in antiquity, all professing that they have found "the way" to calculate the Ascendant. From the collectivist stance of your post, you're saying that they're all right or that something important is to be gained by having the 3 wrong methods stand beside the 1 correct method.

Re: House Systems

This isn't some subjective delineation idea that we are splitting hairs about. We are talking a means of MEASUREMENT. ie. just where IS that cusp, exactly?!

Since we're talking about a measurement, try your argument on other measured things...

Bob: That flagpole is 30 feet tall.

Lisa: That flagpole is 22 feet tall.

Jethro: That flagpole must be a mile tall.

To my mind, there are two possibilities here... either ONE of them is right... or NONE of them are right. There is no way I can see more than one of them being correct.


....
Take care

James

Alternatively,
All could be correct depending how long the feet is.
A British gallon is different from American gallon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallon

PD
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Lucky to have Skyscript Reply with quote

varuna2 wrote:
MorningSun wrote:


The world would not have Arabic numerals, if



Hello MorningSun,

To clarify, the Arabic numeral system:

"...is a positional decimal numeral system developed...by Indian mathematicians."

cheers


Yes, you are so right, the Arabs got the decimal number system from India! I knew the minute I typed it as Arabic numerals, that our Indian members would catch it, but I left it as it was!! Yes, India does deserve the credit! It was just transmitted through the Arabs.
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
Atlantean wrote:
Hello MorningSun

Re: "The library at Alexandria had volumes from all over the known world. They WELCOMED others thoughts and ideas and that is how we all progressed in knowledge on this earth. They did not analyze it and say, our way it better,..."

But wait, please... let's dissect this thought through analogy.

Let's say that 4 different astrologers showed up in antiquity, all professing that they have found "the way" to calculate the Ascendant. From the collectivist stance of your post, you're saying that they're all right or that something important is to be gained by having the 3 wrong methods stand beside the 1 correct method.

Re: House Systems

This isn't some subjective delineation idea that we are splitting hairs about. We are talking a means of MEASUREMENT. ie. just where IS that cusp, exactly?!

Since we're talking about a measurement, try your argument on other measured things...

Bob: That flagpole is 30 feet tall.

Lisa: That flagpole is 22 feet tall.

Jethro: That flagpole must be a mile tall.

To my mind, there are two possibilities here... either ONE of them is right... or NONE of them are right. There is no way I can see more than one of them being correct.


....
Take care

James

Alternatively,
All could be correct depending how long the feet is.
A British gallon is different from American gallon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallon

PD



Hello Pankajdubey,

I think you've included my post with Atlantean/James post. The example regarding increments of measurements belong to Atlantean//James.
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