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A battle of reception — Mercury & Jupiter
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shannontyler89



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Austin, TX

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: A battle of reception — Mercury & Jupiter Reply with quote

I should start by saying that I'm not looking for any type of reading—this is more a subject of fascination for me, and perhaps that's narcissistic since it's due to its presence in my chart. However, any insights into the matter would surely fascinate, since I'm only intermediate, if that.

The contrast of Mercury (6PIS) in weak square with Jupiter (0GEM) has always been plainly obvious in my chart, but for some reason, an ever-heightening facet of it—mutual reception between the two planets—never stood out to me before a couple of days ago when (doing nothing related to astrology) it dawned on me epiphany-style that (1) they were receiving each other, and (2) they were both, naturally, in detriment. Somehow I knew they were each other's dispositors without grasping that significance. Confused

I'm going to attach the chart just to illustrate why I think this is perhaps the strongest "aspect" in my chart.

Their reception comes into play from two stelliums (one arguable, I admit). Mercury joins Sun, Venus, and N Node (this point makes its presence known in my life on the regular—but this is the "arguable" stellium) in Pisces. Jupiter joins Moon, Asc, and Mars in Gemini. (Saturn is at home in Capricorn. The outers can be seen in the attached chart, if they're relevant to this.)

So, the teams are set, and oddly the captains are in each other's courts.

Another random piece of this: As the N is in Pisces, naturally the S Node is in Virgo, dispositor being Mercury ... who's in Pisces. (But this actually seems a helpful coincidence to me.)

Also, Jupiter is in the 12th house. I really don't know how to interpret that or how it fits in, though. In terms of houses, you might also notice the significance this could have on Asc + MC (dispositor Saturn, though — don't get me started on Saturn).

I've been considering studying some old/classical "takes" on Mercury and Jupiter (perhaps even the mythology, which I wholly lack) to better understand how these two can be blended more harmoniously. Don't get me wrong, it's not a conflict 100% of the time, I certainly am presented with their roundabout agreement on many things, but they seem incapable of communicating with each other easily, putting me at odds with myself.

Any insights I'm overlooking? Tips? Resources? Discussion, questions even? I'm hoping to delve into studying this subject over the coming months. If it was any wonder, my fascination with duality (and nonduality), it is no longer! Tongue Out

Here's a link to the chart, that way you're only loading it if you want to: http://www.astro.com/tmpd/c2agfileXUr7gG-u1258072647/astro_2at_03_shannon.62303.21388.gif

EDIT: That link doesn't work anymore, here's a permanent one -- http://postimg.org/image/wv98hj37p/


Last edited by shannontyler89 on Fri May 24, 2013 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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OculusTauri



Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Germany

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello "narcissist",

do you really want to see a classical approach to this nativity? Can you deal with harsh reality?

From the traditional view, Jupiter is significator of your enemies, being placed in the 12th house as ruler of the 7th. He's also conjunct Mars, natural ruler of enemies. Jupiter naturally predicts legal problems and lawsuits, often also arguments with religious persons (priests, believers). In your case, I would especially beware of lawyers and judges, as Jupiter is placed in the 12th house of crime and prison.

Mercury the ASC ruler shows you as a person. He is prime significator of manners - see William Lilly, third book of "Christian Astrology", p. 534 et seq. for description of the technique. Mercury, as you already said, is essentially weak in detriment. His dispositor Jupiter is badly placed: In detriment, in the 12th, conjunct a peregrine Mars and beholding Mercury with a square. Planets in detriment often portray their negative attitudes - in case of Mercury: Cunning, deceit, lying, trickery, often also nervousness and fickleness (cf. CA III, p. 538). These are character traits that might get you into trouble with law.

The Moon is void of course (VOC) in the 1st house. In the Ptolemaic model of cosmos the Moon travels in the lowest of planetary spheres while receiving influence from all the upper planets. The Moon is of such a passive and susceptible nature that she desperately needs to be in applicative aspects to other planets: Being left with herself, she simply doesn't know what to do. Hence a VOC Moon in the 1st indicates danger of the native being lazy, idle, jobless, without any ambitions. Idle people are also more likely to get into mischief.

A mutual reception between two planets often indicates friendship: In your nativity, Jupiter is in mutual reception with Mercury, while also being ruler of the 11th house of friends. But if this Jupiter really signifies friends, he rather shows friends of a "evil" or even criminal nature which can quickly turn into enemies. Even if they don't turn into enemies, these so-called friends have a bad influence on you and might lead you astray, so beware of them. You should instead look for friends of a gentle, caring nature (especially female ones), seeing that an exalted Venus is favourably placed on the 11th cusp. Venus is the most favourably placed planet in your chart, the so-called Lord of the Geniture (LOG).

Your basic temperament is sanguine-phlegmatic: sanguine, because ASC and Moon are in airy signs; phlegmatic, since ASC ruler is placed in a watery sign, likewise you are born in winter (Sun in Pisces). Taken together with the indications of Mercury and the Moon, you seem to be a very double-minded and labile person, which fact is confirmed by both planets being in mutable signs.

Though you are not inherently evil, bad circumstances can easily lead you astray. I hope my judgement is wrong, but there's a real danger that you might become a criminal, even if only a petty one.
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shannontyler89



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Austin, TX

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps skipping town to avoid student loan payments, yet only if I can't afford them. Wink I was actually brought up around a decent amount of crime, but as far as I knew there's little to no risk of me getting into that business, unless something terrible happens in grad school. I really am a terrible liar and have too much anxiety for crime, and I have a squeaky clean record that I enjoy keeping around.

Is it at all possible that what you're seeing there is my loathing of authority/oppression (enemies/criminality)? I stay out of trouble in small part because I want nothing to do personally with the justice system or police, other than to investigate and research them. My disgust with authority is a large part of the reason I'm studying sociology and journalism. A career of crime, perhaps, given the current DOJ assessment of investigative journalism. Wink Wink But, to be real, the 12th represents the unfortunate, and especially the institutionalization of misfortune as much as prison itself, no? I ask because this is the whole focus behind my pursuing the career I am--even if it's just sociological research, to the point that I care much less for any other facet of my potential future (kids, marriage, family, I could take it or leave it compared to my dearly-hoped-for career). I'm genuinely wondering if this could be the case, because I could perhaps see how those things would be represented similarly. But, don't get me wrong, you know your stuff better than I do, and I'm a little biased. Smile

What you've laid out makes good sense, so it seems to me at the very least a susceptibility. In that case, do you think there's anywhere I should be looking in the chart as a potential path away from that situation?

One thing that I don't entirely understand is the factor of idleness. Certainly when it comes to jobs I care nothing for and offer me only stability, I typically earn what I need for that stability, and then devote the rest of my attention to fruitful nonpaying work (studying!). For the first couple years of my degree I worked and studied full time, now I am lucky enough to just focus on school, but friends and family get frustrated with me because of how much time I spend studying as opposed to hanging out, which I find overrated. (70+ hrs a week studying is typical. Both to keep my GPA up and because classes don't teach you enough in my opinion, so I think independent research alongside is the way to go). I actually get very anxious and depressed if I'm idle. It's part of the problem I have with "just having fun": I'm not accomplishing or learning anything. I need the discipline at least of a project -- but if I lack it, you're right, I will just sleep.

I really, really appreciate your response. It's certainly a surprise, but I'd rather know-and-avoid than not be prepared (what else is astrology for, right? Smile ).

I'm-a go make some more female friends now... Shocked
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OculusTauri



Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Germany

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shannontyler89 wrote:
Is it at all possible that what you're seeing there is my loathing of authority/oppression (enemies/criminality)? I stay out of trouble in small part because I want nothing to do personally with the justice system or police, other than to investigate and research them. My disgust with authority is a large part of the reason I'm studying sociology and journalism. A career of crime, perhaps, given the current DOJ assessment of investigative journalism. Wink Wink But, to be real, the 12th represents the unfortunate, and especially the institutionalization of misfortune as much as prison itself, no? I ask because this is the whole focus behind my pursuing the career I am--even if it's just sociological research, to the point that I care much less for any other facet of my potential future (kids, marriage, family, I could take it or leave it compared to my dearly-hoped-for career). I'm genuinely wondering if this could be the case, because I could perhaps see how those things would be represented similarly.


"Authorities" seems to be a vague term here. Judges or even lawyers can be considered authorities of law. Authorities in the most general sense are signified by the 10th house and the Sun. Your natal chart shows the Moon in tight separative square to Sun. Here, the Sun specifically signifies the father: The Sun is natural ruler of fathers and also ruler of the 4th house of fathers, hence indicating arguments with him. Our father is naturally some kind of authority for us.

shannontyler89 wrote:

But, don't get me wrong, you know your stuff better than I do, and I'm a little biased. Smile


In all humbleness, I wouldn't be lurking about this subforum if I was a master (no pun intended Smile). I practice astrological judgement by giving cold reads to unknown people on the internet, whose threads I stumble upon. Sometimes I get it wrong, but it doesn't bother me much. The advantage is that I don't feel obliged to please people here. I'm allowed to be direct and honest in judgement, which sometimes may come across as harsh. So don't take it personally when I state that your chart is not the rosiest one (at least from the traditional view). I mainly write for the silent readers in the background, in order to increase the honour of astrology and to advertise traditional techniques.

shannontyler89 wrote:
What you've laid out makes good sense, so it seems to me at the very least a susceptibility. In that case, do you think there's anywhere I should be looking in the chart as a potential path away from that situation?


As I said, Venus is the most favourably placed planet in your chart. It is your "Lord of the Geniture" (LOG): This planet is our guiding angel, it also the default option when everything else goes wrong. Lilly describes the technique of finding the LOG in a birth chart in CA III, pp. 531-32. Venus being on the cusp of the 11th, look for friends of a positive Venusian nature, especially female friends, since Venus is a female planet placed in a female sign. For description of what "Venusian" might signify, look it up in Lilly's CA I, pp. 72-76, and also in CA III, p. 541.

shannontyler89 wrote:
One thing that I don't entirely understand is the factor of idleness. Certainly when it comes to jobs I care nothing for and offer me only stability, I typically earn what I need for that stability, and then devote the rest of my attention to fruitful nonpaying work (studying!). For the first couple years of my degree I worked and studied full time, now I am lucky enough to just focus on school, but friends and family get frustrated with me because of how much time I spend studying as opposed to hanging out, which I find overrated. (70+ hrs a week studying is typical. Both to keep my GPA up and because classes don't teach you enough in my opinion, so I think independent research alongside is the way to go). I actually get very anxious and depressed if I'm idle. It's part of the problem I have with "just having fun": I'm not accomplishing or learning anything. I need the discipline at least of a project -- but if I lack it, you're right, I will just sleep.


Idleness literally means doing nothing, either being totally passive or doing useless, random things - mostly because one doesn't really know what to do else. A VOC Moon in the 1st is often an indication that the native is unsteady, wavering, doesn't have solid ambitions, doesn't persist in one job (instead doing several part-time jobs) or that he is even totally jobless. This general attitude of idleness is confirmed by both VOC Moon in the 1st house of personality, and weak Mercury in the 10th house of career being in mutable signs.
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shannontyler89



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Austin, TX

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OculusTauri wrote:

Your natal chart shows the Moon in tight separative square to Sun. Here, the Sun specifically signifies the father: The Sun is natural ruler of fathers and also ruler of the 4th house of fathers, hence indicating arguments with him. Our father is naturally some kind of authority for us.


Hmm, well I don't have any father-figures, so that wouldn't apply to me.

OculusTauri wrote:

Venus being on the cusp of the 11th, look for friends of a positive Venusian nature, especially female friends, since Venus is a female planet placed in a female sign.


I guess I just don't completely understand how friends are my saving grace -- that in itself seems to lead one to idleness. If there's nothing else in my chart that would imply a positive path to take, should I quit school and not work, just focusing on making more female friends? That seems ill-advised. Clearly there are paths available to me other than Venusian friends or crime/lawsuits.

OculusTauri wrote:

Idleness literally means doing nothing, either being totally passive or doing useless, random things - mostly because one doesn't really know what to do else. A VOC Moon in the 1st is often an indication that the native is unsteady, wavering, doesn't have solid ambitions, doesn't persist in one job (instead doing several part-time jobs) or that he is even totally jobless. This general attitude of idleness is confirmed by both VOC Moon in the 1st house of personality, and weak Mercury in the 10th house of career being in mutable signs.


Again, this really doesn't describe me at all. This is actually something that would deeply bother me. Not to toot my own horn, but to illustrate: I didn't take myself from being unschooled and homeless under the care of my mom to getting myself into UT-Austin and doing well here by means of idleness. The job I held during part of "high school" and college was one I remained in for four years, and in my typical anti-unnecessary-authority way, only quit when a tyrannical GM took over. The place is now asking me to come back because they got rid of him, and I worked very hard for them.

If I'm useless, there's really no point in me wasting oxygen, in my frank opinion. I guess I overcame these shortcomings without even trying? That I kind of doubt too. Confused

I guess if the interpretation lends itself no malleability, it's just not the case. Neutral
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi shannon,

thanks for sharing.. there is a thread that happened a few months ago on the overcoming square, or something to that effect.. it was about which planet had the upper hand in a square relationship with the other one.. in your chart, mercury has the upper hand over the jupiter/mars.. let me see if i can find the thread by opening another window here.. that was easy, LOL.
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7312

you might enjoy reading this.

my own limited view on your chart could be summed up a few ways, but overall the mutable signs work off the energy from the cardinal signs. in your chart the planets in capricorn have an important influence over the rest of your chart for this reason. saturn is strong in the sign capricorn, but is in the 8th house which restricts it some.. however it is in a nice relationship with your prominent sun/venus conjunction which i think is quite nice! the aspect between sun and saturn is called a 'quintile'.. check that out if you are into it.. it suggests a particular talent for merging the energies of the planets involved in the quintile.

i mostly think of the gemini planets as being first house in nature.. i know this goes contrary to the box 12 or 1 view on the chart, but since all these planets, including your moon are in the rising sign - they all share a first house type of influence as i see it.. mars is interesting as it is 45 the ascendant/midheaven midpoint and seems to give off greater self confidence in finding your own path on a mental level, especially as it is conjunct the rising jupiter... all in all these are all favourable signatures as i see it.. the saturn in the 8th is strengthened by being in capricorn.. your chart is a day chart and the sun does dominate in a good way here, while having an obvious connection to both the other day sect planets jupiter and saturn.

i think what any beginner or newbie to astrology needs to recognize is that there are many ways to go about reading a chart and no one way is the best or only way. you will have a better insight into how it all works with your chart that anyone else.. i have a few close friends born in 89 with that saturn/neptune conjunction.. this conjunction seems to favour a greater sensitivity to music and an appreciation of music. when i first looked at your chart i thought perhaps you might be involved in some aspect of the music business! thanks again for sharing.
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Ariondys



Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 191
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shannontyler89 wrote:
Is it at all possible that what you're seeing there is my loathing of authority


I was expecting Uranus to be jumping up and down on your Sun from such a freely offered statement. If you felt strongly enough you'd be looking for authorities to bother, not keeping a clean record.

Your link to chart was a temporary, but I reconstructed your chart somewhat to a fraction of a day from a Gem Asc and Mer-Jup positions. Perhaps the nearest easiest guess would be for me to assume you might be able to have your Sun as the direct midpoint of Uranus/Ascendant in order to capture some of that sentiment towards authority.

If that guess fits, then maybe Jup=Mer/MC fits as well (in this case the = would refer to a 90 degree aspect)

Mer/Jup=Nod
in any case; another way to link them 2 planets
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shannontyler89



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Austin, TX

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariondys wrote:
I was expecting Uranus to be jumping up and down on your Sun from such a freely offered statement. If you felt strongly enough you'd be looking for authorities to bother, not keeping a clean record.


Haha, I understand that -- I like the clean record because it allows me to be the pain with the camera or pen and pad. They love throwing people in the pen, they don't love having it recorded. Very Happy How better to be a thorn in their side, than to be an otherwise very well behaved ...thorn. Wink

But, more to the point, it's not rules I dislike per se, but rulers. And even then, only for their tendency to oppression and abuse. <- That's what I really detest.

I'll be right back with a permanent link, and then I'll delve more into what you said. The Sun being between the Asc and Ura may well be case, it certainly is approximately.

EDIT:
Okay, this should work -- http://postimg.org/image/wv98hj37p/

You were 5 minutes off, tsk. Smile Asc/Ura is 23 58' PIS. Sun is 24 03'.

Mer/MC actually trines Jupiter. It's 28 58' AQU -- 01 34' orb? My math might be off on that.

James M., lots of neat info, I'm about to delve into it.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: A battle of reception — Mercury & Jupiter Reply with quote

shannontyler89 wrote:

Here's a link to the chart, that way you're only loading it if you want to: http://www.astro.com/tmpd/c2agfileXUr7gG-u1258072647/astro_2at_03_shannon.62303.21388.gif

. . . the chart is gone Shocked
would you mind to renew it or to give us the data, please?
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OculusTauri



Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Germany

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shannontyler89 wrote:

Hmm, well I don't have any father-figures, so that wouldn't apply to me.


Anybody of us has/had a father. We all have been fathered by some particular man, otherwise we wouldn't even exist. You might not know him, or even hate him, but he's still your father.

Maybe this is the reason for your "disgust with authorities" - rebellion against your own father in a figurative sense? Having no strong paternal figure, not even a symbolical one (like for example God), can lead to idleness, anarchy, deterioration. There's no one who helps you in distinguishing good from bad, no one who can give you a direction to follow in life, no one who can lead you on your spiritual path.
Hating your own creator (father/God) is definitely not a healthy mental attitude. For the sake of your own well-being, you should try to overcome it.

shannontyler89 wrote:
I guess I just don't completely understand how friends are my saving grace -- that in itself seems to lead one to idleness.


If these friends happen to be idle or even criminal, then of course they might lead you astray. Your nativity suggests that you might involuntarily be influenced by "evil" friends. Avoid the company of such persons under any circumstances.

shannontyler89 wrote:
If there's nothing else in my chart that would imply a positive path to take, should I quit school and not work, just focusing on making more female friends? That seems ill-advised.


If you quit school and don't go to work, this will exactly fulfill the danger of idleness which is indicated by your birth charts.

shannontyler89 wrote:
Clearly there are paths available to me other than Venusian friends or crime/lawsuits.


Maybe there are options besides Venus waiting in the birth chart, but I'm not able to see them. Saturn is essentially strong in domicile, but accidentally weak in the 8th house. Saturn fortunately placed in the 8th might show inheritances, or profit from dead folks (as Lilly puts it). Though I wouldn't rely on this in your case.

Venus doesn't signify friends only. You might, for example, look for a job which is of Venusian nature. Here's an exemplary list by Lilly: "Apothecaries, Druggists, Grocers, Perfumers, Vintners, Victuallers, Painters, Jewellers, Tire-makers, Wardrobe-keepers, Musicians, &c." (CA III, p. 628). Sociology and journalism are both Mercurial in nature. With Mercury as ASC ruler placed in the 10th, you are naturally inclined towards these occupational fields - but as Mercury is badly configured, you will be much less fortunate in them than in Venusian ones.

shannontyler89 wrote:

Again, this really doesn't describe me at all. This is actually something that would deeply bother me. Not to toot my own horn, but to illustrate: I didn't take myself from being unschooled and homeless under the care of my mom to getting myself into UT-Austin and doing well here by means of idleness. The job I held during part of "high school" and college was one I remained in for four years, and in my typical anti-unnecessary-authority way, only quit when a tyrannical GM took over. The place is now asking me to come back because they got rid of him, and I worked very hard for them.


No need to become upset. I don't know you personally, I'm just telling what I see while looking at the chart.

You might not notice it, but VOC Moon and Mercury actually describe your situation in life pretty well: According to your own statement you grew up homeless (Moon and Mercury are both natural rulers of movement and changeability). You're not only jobless right now, but you also have been unschooled for a long time (VOC: no direction given at all). You were temporarily employed in a job, which you deliberately left because of personal issues with a "tyrannical GM" (Moon in square to Sun).

Right now you're studying sociology and journalism (Mercury), though you don't seem to really know what to do with it afterwards. You say your main reason for studying these fields is "disgust with authority" - forgive me, but this sounds like an irrational, almost childish kind of reason. If I'm allowed to quote you:

Quote:
My disgust with authority is a large part of the reason I'm studying sociology and journalism. [...] I ask because this is the whole focus behind my pursuing the career I am--even if it's just sociological research, to the point that I care much less for any other facet of my potential future (kids, marriage, family, I could take it or leave it compared to my dearly-hoped-for career).


I had trouble understanding this part, as it sounds a bit confused. I mean, is it the aim of sociology (or journalism) just to debase "authorities"? Are you being serious? Sad

Maybe your study is in fact nothing but a vent for your negative emotions, which are shown by VOC Moon in square to the Sun. Irrational hate is certainly not a good advisor. Anyway, I hope you'll still be able to make something positive and beneficial out of your studies.
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shannontyler89



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Austin, TX

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, okay -- pardon me, to anyone else participating in this thread, but I have to respond to this.

OculusTauri wrote:
Maybe this is the reason for your "disgust with authorities" - rebellion against your own father in a figurative sense? Having no strong paternal figure, not even a symbolical one (like for example God), can lead to idleness, anarchy, deterioration. There's no one who helps you in distinguishing good from bad, no one who can give you a direction to follow in life, no one who can lead you on your spiritual path.
Hating your own creator (father/God) is definitely not a healthy mental attitude. For the sake of your own well-being, you should try to overcome it.


You're leaving astrology and entering psychology at this point. There's no basis to any of those statements, not to mention their gendered nature. If not having a father leads to deterioration, America is doomed, as extranuptial birth rates continue to skyrocket. Luckily, you're entirely off-base here.

OculusTauri wrote:
Your nativity suggests that you might involuntarily be influenced by "evil" friends. Avoid the company of such persons under any circumstances.


This is common sense.

OculusTauri wrote:
No need to become upset. I don't know you personally, I'm just telling what I see while looking at the chart.


At no point did I express upset.

OculusTauri wrote:
You might not notice it, but VOC Moon and Mercury actually describe your situation in life pretty well: According to your own statement you grew up homeless (Moon and Mercury are both natural rulers of movement and changeability). You're not only jobless right now, but you also have been unschooled for a long time (VOC: no direction given at all). You were temporarily employed in a job, which you deliberately left because of personal issues with a "tyrannical GM" (Moon in square to Sun).


I was unschooled for most of my schooling-years. Unschooled means not following standard curriculum, or parent-enforced curriculum. I spent all of those years entirely entrenched in study. I am "unemployed" right now because I attend a very, very rigorous university full-time and pull straight As. The majority of this university's students are not employed. I wish everyone had that opportunity, because it's called "full time" for a reason. I was employed at the same company for longer than the vast majority of people my age have held a single job, and I was very well respected by management, with the exception of the bad seed who was gotten rid of, for my hard work. Your prediction is wrong, I'm sorry.

OculusTauri wrote:

Right now you're studying sociology and journalism (Mercury), though you don't seem to really know what to do with it afterwards. You say your main reason for studying these fields is "disgust with authority" - forgive me, but this sounds like an irrational, almost childish kind of reason.


Again, you're abandoning astrology for psychology. If you'd read on through the thread, you would know that my disgust lies with oppression and abuse, which is all-to-often legitimized by "authority." These are not radical ideas, and certainly you won't claim these are childish things for one to be impassioned against. Leaving my options open to become a professor, in case journalism (a field on questionable footing right now) doesn't offer enough opportunity, is not indicative of my "not knowing what I want to do with it afterwards." It's a decent career decision which has the backing of advisors, writers, and professors who I've consulted about it.

Believe it or not, I'm not actually a idle, aimless, destructive child, but rather a complete human adult capable of just as much good judgment as you.

OculusTauri wrote:
I had trouble understanding this part, as it sounds a bit confused. I mean, is it the aim of sociology (or journalism) just to debase "authorities"? Are you being serious? Sad


Ask just about any sociologist why they chose their field, and they will answer to you: I saw injustice in the world, I wanted to investigate and get to the root of it so that I could offer solutions to finding its end. Yes, oppression and injustice should be addressed. Many people are in the business of addressing it, and I hope to join them.

OculusTauri wrote:
Maybe your study is in fact nothing but a vent for your negative emotions, which are shown by VOC Moon in square to the Sun. Irrational hate is certainly not a good advisor. Anyway, I hope you'll still be able to make something positive and beneficial out of your studies.


You've arbitrarily decided that I am advised by hate and have "negative emotions" which need venting, and then go on to condescend? You would probably be surprised to learn that no one has ever accused me of being driven by hate, or of a childish desire for vengeance against those who reinforce oppression. It has been repeated many times by adults who knew me as a child recognized quickly that I was very compassionate, very studious, and stood up for those who I witnessed being bullied. These are qualities that I always strive to maintain, for better or worse.

The thing about not being qualified to offer psychological advice, yet doing it anyway, is it can easily be turned on you by any likewise-unqualified judge. I'd be careful about that.

"When I am commanded to love, I am commanded to restore community, to resist injustice, and to meet the needs of my brothers." -Dr. MLK Jr. (That's what I'm talking about.)
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shannontyler89



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Austin, TX

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Re: A battle of reception — Mercury & Jupiter Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:
shannontyler89 wrote:

Here's a link to the chart, that way you're only loading it if you want to: http://www.astro.com/tmpd/c2agfileXUr7gG-u1258072647/astro_2at_03_shannon.62303.21388.gif

. . . the chart is gone Shocked
would you mind to renew it or to give us the data, please?


I just corrected the link if the original post, sorry about that! Smile
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Ariondys



Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 191
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariondys wrote:
...the nearest easiest guess would be for me to assume you might be able to have your Sun as the direct midpoint of Uranus/Ascendant in order to capture some of that sentiment towards authority.

If that guess fits, then maybe Jup=Mer/MC fits as well (in this case the = would refer to a 90 degree aspect)

shannontyler89 wrote:
You were 5 minutes off, tsk. Smile Asc/Ura is 23 58' PIS. Sun is 24 03'.

Mer/MC actually trines Jupiter. It's 28 58' AQU -- 01 34' orb? My math might be off on that.

With the birth coordinates being about 6 degrees difference from what I used while guessing, it wasn't possible...

With another look, at the actual/factual location and time, midpoint involvement with Asc is apparent:
----Moo=Asc/Nep
----Mer=Asc/Jup *
--Asc=Sun/Jup
--Asc=Mer/Ven
=Sun=Asc/Ura
=Asc/MC=Mar=Nod/Jup
+Ven=Asc/Sun
+++Asc=Moo/Jup
+++Asc/MC=Nod/Mar
+++++MC=Jup/Plu

it's a little hard to sort them precisly, as they adjust at different rates depending on what side of the formula the Asc is, but something like above.

* kind of like the fictional 2nd guess I refered to
Mer=Asc/Jup | successful communications, mercury=good deeds from others, optimistic dialogue

these
Moo=Ven/Ura
Moo/Sat=Ura
Nod=Mer/Jup=Sun/Plu

since you refer: when rulers oppress
your Asc=Hades/Kronos
=AS=HA/KR | others are crooks on a great scale, bad authorities, debased elitism

As Hades and Kronos transit in Cancer so slowly, there is long thread of this mode of authority in the foreseeable, but Vulkanus will leave Cancer in a few years and some of "the force" will leave the hands of the executive.
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OculusTauri



Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Germany

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shannontyler89 wrote:
You're leaving astrology and entering psychology at this point. There's no basis to any of those statements, not to mention their gendered nature. If not having a father leads to deterioration, America is doomed, as extranuptial birth rates continue to skyrocket. Luckily, you're entirely off-base here.


Yes, I'm entering psychology, but it is backed up by astrology. The last aspect of VOC Moon is the separative square to the Sun still in orbs, hence indicating problems with the father / father-figure, which comes across in disguise of "disgust with authority".

shannontyler89 wrote:
This is common sense.


If your birth chart didn't suggest that you're likely to meet criminal friends, there would have been no need to warn you. Besides, there's a famous quote of William Lilly telling astrologers to "mix art with discrection" (i.e. common sense).

shannontyler89 wrote:
I was unschooled for most of my schooling-years. Unschooled means not following standard curriculum, or parent-enforced curriculum. I spent all of those years entirely entrenched in study. I am "unemployed" right now because I attend a very, very rigorous university full-time and pull straight As. The majority of this university's students are not employed. I wish everyone had that opportunity, because it's called "full time" for a reason. I was employed at the same company for longer than the vast majority of people my age have held a single job, and I was very well respected by management, with the exception of the bad seed who was gotten rid of, for my hard work. Your prediction is wrong, I'm sorry.


No problem at all with my prediction being wrong. We'll see what your studies will bring in the future. Study in itself is an achievement, but not a guarantee that you'll make something out of it.

shannontyler89 wrote:
Again, you're abandoning astrology for psychology. If you'd read on through the thread, you would know that my disgust lies with oppression and abuse, which is all-to-often legitimized by "authority." These are not radical ideas, and certainly you won't claim these are childish things for one to be impassioned against. Leaving my options open to become a professor, in case journalism (a field on questionable footing right now) doesn't offer enough opportunity, is not indicative of my "not knowing what I want to do with it afterwards." It's a decent career decision which has the backing of advisors, writers, and professors who I've consulted about it.


"Oppression", "abuse", "authority": These are all vague terms, but nothing concrete and tangible. You can't base a whole study on phrasemongering or chasing phantoms. Where exactly do you see such things? "Disgust with authority" sounds like pubertal anarchism, nothing more.

shannontyler89 wrote:

Ask just about any sociologist why they chose their field, and they will answer to you: I saw injustice in the world, I wanted to investigate and get to the root of it so that I could offer solutions to finding its end. Yes, oppression and injustice should be addressed. Many people are in the business of addressing it, and I hope to join them.


Don't take it personally, but at the university where I studied sociologists were regarded as prattlers. Only those would study it who didn't know what to do else. Of course, this statement has nothing to do with astrology, so don't take it for granted.

As for astrology, Mercury is badly placed in your birth chart: It shows lying, deceit, propaganda etc. You can go on studying sociology (and journalism), but I don't think there will come something positive out of it.

shannontyler89 wrote:

You've arbitrarily decided that I am advised by hate and have "negative emotions" which need venting, and then go on to condescend? You would probably be surprised to learn that no one has ever accused me of being driven by hate, or of a childish desire for vengeance against those who reinforce oppression. It has been repeated many times by adults who knew me as a child recognized quickly that I was very compassionate, very studious, and stood up for those who I witnessed being bullied. These are qualities that I always strive to maintain, for better or worse.


"Disgust" is a strongly negative word. Maybe your studies will really make you the hero of mankind. Though I'm pretty convinced, that you too would be "oppressing" people if you were an "authority". You're simply not in power. Let's overcome this childish anarchism.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: A battle of reception — Mercury & Jupiter Reply with quote

shannontyler89 wrote:
I just corrected the link if the original post, sorry about that! Smile
Thumbs up Very Happy
Thanks for the permanent chart, Shannon!
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