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law of attraction and astrology
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Location: United States

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: law of attraction and astrology Reply with quote

in your alls opinion, is the LOA valid in light of astrology being real? Or not even just LOA for that matter, but also things like magic as well? I have been thinking a lot about this issue, trying to determine if astrological energy is fated, or if it can be resisted with the proper tools. (much in the same way that a natural force like gravity can be "defied" if you use a rocket.) Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset? Or is that basically just a waste of time? What do you all think?
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2966
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: law of attraction and astrology Reply with quote

hi astronovice,

you ask a lot of questions in a short post!

i suppose i am guilty of being so caught up in the language of astrology, getting outside of it to think what someone else might think about all this is difficult to do. do i believe venus connections between charts has relevance or helps to validate the law of attraction astrologically? do i believe that magic happens and astrology can still be valid? yes to both these questions personally.

but i really want to answer in the affirmative on one of your later questions -"Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset?"

to me this goes without saying, but i am happy to re-emphasize it in spite of or becuase of my lifelong involvement in astrology. i think this is really helpful while i might not be able to prove any of it, i do believe that our beliefs have a huge roll in shaping our experience.

thanks for asking.

AstroNovice wrote:
in your alls opinion, is the LOA valid in light of astrology being real? Or not even just LOA for that matter, but also things like magic as well? I have been thinking a lot about this issue, trying to determine if astrological energy is fated, or if it can be resisted with the proper tools. (much in the same way that a natural force like gravity can be "defied" if you use a rocket.) Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset? Or is that basically just a waste of time? What do you all think?
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOA (Law of Attraction)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction

I just watched 'The Secret' (documentary)...
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Location: United States

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: law of attraction and astrology Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
hi astronovice,

you ask a lot of questions in a short post!

i suppose i am guilty of being so caught up in the language of astrology, getting outside of it to think what someone else might think about all this is difficult to do. do i believe venus connections between charts has relevance or helps to validate the law of attraction astrologically? do i believe that magic happens and astrology can still be valid? yes to both these questions personally.

but i really want to answer in the affirmative on one of your later questions -"Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset?"

to me this goes without saying, but i am happy to re-emphasize it in spite of or becuase of my lifelong involvement in astrology. i think this is really helpful while i might not be able to prove any of it, i do believe that our beliefs have a huge roll in shaping our experience.

thanks for asking.


yeah, right now I am kind of feeling stuck, because I know logically that astrological influences are quite powerful, so I don't want to waste my time trying to alter my fate if its actually impossible to do; on the other hand though I sometimes feel like I am too much "go with the flow" and I wonder if maybe I am missing out on lifes experiences by being too passive. By any chance, do you know of any quotes from traditional astrologers that address this very matter? Also do you have any anecdotes of times where it appeared that positive thinking/attitude saved the day? That would help me greatly if you have any stories like that to share. Thanks
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2966
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astronovice,

i don't have any quotes from traditional astrology to offer. most of what i read on trad astro is all nuts and bolts minus any philosophy. i have some personal experiences, but nothing that would pass a scientific examination. some of my most interesting moments of enlightenment and liberation have coincided with jupiter transits. in the hierarchy of traditional astrology the lowly transit data is given short shrift, but it has been my experience that transit data off of the outer planets to personal points/planets in a chart are central to a persons experience.

based on the thoughtful posts you make on this website i would suggest you don't make traditional astrology a prison cell that you have to find a way to escape from. think of astrology as just one of many windows to gain some perspective on your life, as opposed to the only one or one that becomes restrictive.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 934
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astronovice, this will sound pretty "modern"-- except that I recently saw a video where Robert Hand said much the same thing in his conclusions.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yWrU4zn6ic

Your chart will "out" in some fashion. You can call this expression deterministic or fatalistic if you like. However, each planetary placement nevertheless has a range of potential manifestations, each consistent with that placement. So here is where your choice, or ability to attract what you want, comes in.

As you look at your various chart placements, and any transits or progressions that may be currently hitting you with a big stick; think through the different possible meanings of each planet, sign, house, and aspect. What would be some empowering meanings of these placements?

No, you can't "resist" your chart. I don't know why you would even want to resist your chart. Ideally it fits your life experience-- the outrageously good parts about you as well as the less-happy parts. But what you can do is consider your best meanings of your chart placements, and then consciously work to attract those into your life.

Here is where being positive about yourself, horoscope horrors and all, can attract what you want into your life.

Just for example, a disempowering interpretation of the sign of Leo is that it is too proud, arrogant, and bossy. An empowering interpretation is that the sign is generous and self-expressive.

I find this works strategy best with Saturn. You can see him as limitation, disappointment, and frustration. Or as your great teacher for deferred gratification, patience, hard work, and a big reality-check. If you learn Saturn's lessons, there is no magic about it-- save money instead of spending it, and you will have money in the bank.

This shift in your approach may take some doing. You may have to actively put yourself into new situations. But I think the universe notices if you take small steps to manifest your positive potential; and in that way, you may find your life re-aligning.

I'm not making this up. My horoscope looks fairly awful, but as I began to work with some of my troubled aspects, rather than simply feeling myself to be blind-sided by them, the effects actually got a lot better.

You either: (A) manifest the positive possibilities for your chart, (B) the negative options, or else (C) you disown the parts of your chart/self that you dislike. Then you tend to attract people/events who seemingly represent the negative qualities of the disowned planets.

I recommend A.

Good luck with this!
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Myriam Hildotter



Joined: 13 Sep 2013
Posts: 37

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might find this strange, given our past discussions, but I am actually in agreement with both Waybread and James here, at least in terms the pragmatic aspects of what they are saying. I come at it from a different analysis, but ultimately, from a practical standpoint, the end result is that I would give similar practical advice.

Thank you so much for the Robert Hand lecture. It was really very interesting. Actually, Robert Hand explains a lot of the things that I was trying to say in previous threads. I would probably say that my philosophy is closest to the Neo-Platoism he described, although I would say that Plato was expounding upon and making Traditional (capital T) (substitute Ancient, if that is more comfortable) philosophy explicit in a world where it was starting to get lost. There are some minor points that I would disagree with in what he said, but for the most part, Robert Hand's explanation was a VERY good!

That all being said, I do not believe in the Law of Attraction as some sort of "force in the universe." In the Ancient Model of the Cosmos, the higher spheres are NOT really the orbits of the planets, but outside the realm of the physical world. All of the planets, and everything in the physical universe that one can measure or extrapolate from sense data are in the sublunary sphere. (This is why I believe that Modern Science is limited, by the way).

In Ancient thought, we (or our souls, as you will) do not just exist on the sublunary sphere. They exist in all of the spheres simultaneously. This is getting rather deep into this understanding of the cosmos; however, the easiest spheres to understand are the two that are closest to the sublunary sphere, the Lunary Sphere and the Sphere of Mercury. The Lunary Sphere is the sphere of our dreams and imagination, and the Sphere of Mercury, the sphere of thought. When we think and imagine things, we are operating in these Spheres. In the axiom, "as above, so below," the activity on these Spheres will influence our physical manifestation on the sublunary sphere, or in our physical life.

In the Age of Iron, we are quite consolidated in physical manifestation, so it is harder to influence the physical realms by non-physical means. In earlier Ages, what we would consider "magic" probably worked, whereas it really does not in this Age, particularly not this late into the Age. I suppose if one was at a high state of Enlightenment, it might, but I doubt any of us here are at that state. I sure am not.

In terms of our charts, I think that the chart gives us a range. Our Nativity Charts show our place in the Harmony of the Spheres. There is a Japanese word "wa" that means harmony, but in a deeper sense than just music. It is the harmony of the cosmos and the harmony of social relationships and life in general. Our chart shows our natural "wa."

I believe that humans are Axial Beings, which means that we can rise above or fall below our wa. Animals generally can not. There are some exceptions. For example, a dog can save the life of her owner and rise above her wa, or the dog can go rogue, and fall below her wa. This is quite rare though. Mostly, though, a dog will just be a dog.

People are different. They can express their charts at a very high level, or rise above their wa, or they can express their charts at a very low level, and fall below their wa. Most people tend to express their charts in keeping with their wa, however.

This is why one can make predictions with reasonable accuracy, I believe. Most people do what comes naturally to them, particularly in the late Age of Iron. The chart can show one's full range however, with ways to rise above and temptations to fall below what is natural.

As you can see, I am approaching these questions from a different angle; however, my conclusion is that no, one is not limited by one's chart, but it can provide useful information.
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tednoel



Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 2

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not believe in a LOA too much. It doesn't work well for me.
But astrology and numerology is much better:)
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Location: United States

Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks guys for the excellent replies

-Waybread

I am definitely going to research this more, what you said is fascinating and I can't wait to try it. One question, would happen to know how on earth I would channel a square aspect? I have a strong saturn square mercury aspect that I feel is the source of most of my woes.

-Myriam

I think the wa concept sounds interesting as well, i'm gonna try to play around with that concept in my mind a little bit.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to some modern astrologers, Harding and Harvey, Working with Astrology, the 2-series in general, notably squares indicate an intense urge to manifest something.

A negative expression of Mercury square Saturn might be pessimistic (Saturn) thinking (Mercury.) Or depressed thinking.

But we do find that the squares are what get people of the couch (or chesterfield, as we say in Canada.) Because they demand some kind of manifestation. Often times people's successful careers reflect their natal squares, because the squares keep pushing the person into greater accomplishments. Squares may not be comfortable, but you can get a lot done with them.

So try out: structured, self-disciplined (Saturn) thinking (Mercury.) Mercury rules the hands, so try to perfect some type of handicraft even if you think you're not "handy." Look at the signs, houses, cusp rulers, and any special "helpers" Saturn and Mercury might receive in your chart. For example, maybe you've got a nice trine to one of them or some mutual reception.

This sounds a whole lot more sensible to me than looking for some sort of resistence or magical practice. In fact, a nice combo for Saturn-Mercury would be sensible (Saturn) thinking (Mercury.)
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muchacho



Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: law of attraction and astrology Reply with quote

AstroNovice wrote:
in your alls opinion, is the LOA valid in light of astrology being real? Or not even just LOA for that matter, but also things like magic as well? I have been thinking a lot about this issue, trying to determine if astrological energy is fated, or if it can be resisted with the proper tools. (much in the same way that a natural force like gravity can be "defied" if you use a rocket.) Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset? Or is that basically just a waste of time? What do you all think?


You are probably referring to LOA teachings since the principle that is called LOA ('like attracts like' or 'that which is like unto itself is drawn') is at the very basis of astrology. So, the LOA itself and astrology are not at odds. It is certain LOA teachings that are (seemingly?) at odds with astrology.

What I see the genuine LOA teachings suggest is that there are no good or bad charts, that there are no lessons to learn and no mess from past lives to clean up. There is, however, a general sense of direction, certain mental dispositions and preferences, that everyone brings into this life and which direct his/her decisions. But those are very broad in nature. It's more like vacationing, like you decide to go on a trip to Europe and what you are going to do there specifically, for how long you go and with whom you are going to have fun is pretty much open and you will fill in the blanks as you go along. So in that sense, if you want to have a good time, two things would be essential: 1) that you know who you are 2) that you stay true to who you are. And as long as you are in alignment with yourself, you will have a good time.

The problem for most people will probably be that they don't know who they are anymore as a result of socialization. And that's where astrology gets interesting.
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muchacho



Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waybread wrote:
I'm not making this up. My horoscope looks fairly awful, but as I began to work with some of my troubled aspects, rather than simply feeling myself to be blind-sided by them, the effects actually got a lot better.

You either: (A) manifest the positive possibilities for your chart, (B) the negative options, or else (C) you disown the parts of your chart/self that you dislike. Then you tend to attract people/events who seemingly represent the negative qualities of the disowned planets.

I recommend A.!

I also recommend A. And the way I see it, if you stay true to yourself, that's exactly what's naturally going to happen.
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mystichorary



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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Location: Kochi, Kerala state

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts are Things

. . . We build our future thought by thought, For good or ill, yet know it not. Yet, so the universe was wrought. Thought is another name for fate; Choose, then, thy destiny and wait, For love brings love and hate brings hate. --Henry Van Dyke

My friend asked me a question about astrology and LOA the other day (the Law of Attraction). It gave me an opportunity to put my thoughts down on this topic.

'How does it work?' she asked.

If I'm born with the sun in Aries will I automatically be assertive, or do I just think I am and so become that way? If I'm born with Venus in Pisces will I always fall for musicians? If my boyfriend is a triple Virgo, will he freak out about cat hairs on the cushions? If I know my daughter has Sagittarius rising will she turn out to love sports, just because I think it's in her? Which is true? Do the stars form our character, or do our thoughts and beliefs?

Let's look at this one at a time.

1. Astrology is LOA in action

We aren't the way we are because of our birth data. Turn it around. We are born at a particular time because of who we are. We don't come here with a clean slate. We have core values, beliefs, likes and dislikes from 'before'. Law of Attraction says 'like attracts like'. Everything in our lives is in alignment with our vibration. We get what we vibrate! Astrology is not in contradiction to this. We are born when we are (the sun, moon, and planets in a certain place) because it's a perfect match!

Example: Accomplishment isn't one of my core values because I was born with 3 planets in the 10th house. I was born with three planets in the 10th house because one of my core values is accomplishment.

2. Astrology is insight

An astrological chart can tell us more about our Self. We can discover limiting beliefs, past patterns, core values and authentic goals. We can spot where we are projecting onto others--attributing to them parts of ourselves. We can use it to understand others. Why do they dress like that, eat those foods, love that film, go for that job? For example, just knowing someone's Moon sign tells us their orientation to nurturing. Everybody nurtures, but each in different ways. A child with an Air sign moon needs to hear the words. One with a Fire moon needs the actions. The Water sign moon needs shared feelings. Earth needs the tangible display. You get the idea. Astrology is a tool, another way to see the authenticity of a being.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautifully stated! Thank you.

Several metaphysical belief systems posit that disincarnate souls choose their time, place, location, and circumstances of their birth, in order to best foster their growth. There is some disagreement as to whether fatalism then takes over, or whether they continue to have the flexibility to make further choices.

Unfortunately, some astrologically-informed people stop seeing themselves and others through fresh eyes, and use astrology as a lens through which to judge and evaluate people.
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waybread wrote:

Unfortunately, some astrologically-informed people stop seeing themselves and others through fresh eyes, and use astrology as a lens through which to judge and evaluate people.


unfortunately, some karmically-informed people stop seeing themselves and others through fresh eyes, and use the idea of karma/past lives as a lens through which to judge and evaluate people too.
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