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Romance horary... or is it ?

 
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jupRx



Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 21

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:09 pm    Post subject: Romance horary... or is it ? Reply with quote

I haven't posted for a while but I've just cast a chart with an outcome which I thought was quite interesting.

The chart details are:

16th Feb 2005 17:16 GMT Edinburgh 3:13W, 55:57N

giving an ascendant of 28Leo44.

The question was "Am I wasting my time with this girl, or is there some future for us ?"

What I thought was interesting was that I think the chart shows what was actually occupying me at the time rather than the question which I asked.

The ascendant is quite late but I decided to press on and look at the chart anyway. My ruler the Sun is in bad shape: peregrine and in detriment in Aquarius, although in her sign and on her cusp. Hers, Saturn, is also in detriment, and retrograde, although in the Moon's (my co-ruler's) rulership and terms. Saturn also has a mutual exaltation with Jupiter, but Jupiter is retrograde too, so not a lot of help for Saturn there.

On the plus side looking at the receptions it does look like there's some mutual feeling here. And the Sun does conjoin the 7th cusp in about half a degree - so perhaps there might be some contact between us soon. However our significators are in such bad shape that it looks like we're not in a strong position to act even if we do get together.

So far, so familiar. Another romance chart that gives you the truth rather than the answer you want Sad

Then I took a closer look at the chart. I've had a chronic illness for a few years, I won't go into details but the kind of thing which doesn't stop you living life but makes you tired, irritable and generally not in a good position to do things to the full. Lately I've been making a big effort through diet and exercise to resolve the problem.

In this chart Saturn also rules the 6th house of illness. My ruler the Sun is ruled by Saturn - taken literally the illness is running my life, and in fact a lot of my thoughts run along the lines of: I'll be able to do <x> once I've got over my illness. The Sun is also in a fixed sign, suggesting something long-term, which is indeed the case with this illness.

So while the question was ostensibly about relationships, which is what I'd rather be thinking about if I wasn't ill, the chart has other ideas.

However, if my horary skills are up to scratch, I'm inclined to think there's some good news in the chart. My significator is about to move into Pisces where it will no longer be in its detriment; Regulus is close to the ascendant which I'd have thought must be a good sign in terms of my general health; and Saturn (the illness) being retrograde and in detriment is in exactly the state you'd want your illness to be in (if you have to have one).

Or at least that's my interpretation, it would be interesting to get other views.

jupRx
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JupRx,

Good to hear from you again.

Iíve wondered your same question too. Can a chart tell us more than we asked about? In the narrowest meaning, the answer is they sure can. If you asked about a girlfriend the chart may tell you she has another guy on the side who you didnít know about. Or she may be about to move, something you didnít know about. This is all stuff you donít know about, but itís the same subject. Iíve wondered if a chart can switch subjects on you, like from romance to health. And if so, how would you know?

A few thoughts on this chart. Not only is the ASC late, but your significator the Sun is about to switch signs, as is Mercury. Iíd consider that to be a theme. And your health is certainly part of the 1st house that Jupiter represents. But what does Mercury represent? It rules the 2nd and 11th houses, which is where your female friend is. 11th house in romance horary = I just want to be friends? Sounds right.

You missed one biggie here. The Moon is in an uber-tight square with Uranus, a scant minute apart from perfection. Uranus in Pisces in the 7th square the Moon Ė shocks, split up with the nice lady, surprises in store with her? Pisces is a mutable fruitful, mute, double-bodied water sign. Iím just taking a stab here but maybe whatever the nature of the shock or separation will be, it will not be long lasting and might be erratic (mutable), it might involve few words (mute) and might be likely to happen over and over again (double-bodied, fruitful).

Either way, both are angular so theyíd be hard to ignore

Your Moon has a few aspects coming up. First with Neptune and Venus by trine. Your Sun changes signs before the Moon can perfect that trine so that one doesnít promise anything. Then it meets Jupiter by trine.

I am curious about what Jupiter could be. Itís important because Saturn exalts it and the Moon makes an aspect with it. Saturn is within the orb of a square with Jupiter but they never reach perfection before Saturn changes signs. Jupiter keep going backwards while Saturn turns direct pretty soon and changes signs before they meet up. But what could Jupiter be? Jupiter = priests, religion, lawyers, the law, higher education, professors. Does this make any sense? I see that Jupiter is in the turned 9th house. Is there a college or university connection here? Or some other kind of 9th house connection Ė the church, the law, etc.?

Anyways, just thought Iíd offer you a few thoughts and ideas to bang around.

Hope everything is going well in Edinburgh and Iíll down an Iron Brew for you and your health.
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This ascendant is very late. I'm not too sure I would place too much stock in anything that can be seen in a chart with that late an ascendant. I would look at that chart and say that the time has gone. It is too late. I wouldn't try to read anything further into it. It's just what I would do though.

Was just talking to friends about Edinburgh yesterday and what a great place it is. Was there about three or four months ago.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might be right about the late ASC. I have done some charts where I ask if I'll get some job and when I see a late ASC I just think that the job already went to someone else.

But what do you think about his question in a general sense? Can a chart switch subjects on you, say from romance to your job or to your house? And if so, how would you tell?

PS - I LOVE Edinburgh too. I was there for two weeks two summers ago for the Fringe festival. What a charming city. I stayed right at the foot of Arthur's Seat, climbed it several times. Love the Scots too. Quiet and well mannered when appropriate, fun and lively when the time is right.
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jupRx



Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 21

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, Sue,

Thanks for your comments and good wishes and nice to hear that everyone loves Edinburgh... I've been here nearly 5 years now (which is a long time for me) and it's a great place to live.

As for the chart, I guess Mercury hanging around her cusp and in her sign (and in the sign of my detriment) could suggest he represents a rival for her affections - but the receptions suggest it's not a mutual feeling... and in any case Mercury's about to head into debilitation in Pisces.

Re: the Moon-Uranus square. I sent the quesited flowers on Valentine's Day anonymously. The idea being I would mention it to her at some point if and when the time was right. Unfortunately the time hasn't been right yet Sad But I guess that might constitute the surprise element...

Re: Jupiter, there's a few possibilities: the first is that the quesited is a bit of a traveller (just back from working abroad for 3 years and travelling in Asia) so her need to explore might be preventing her from getting together with someone. And religion is a possibility too, holding her back from what she really wants. Thirdly there's a big 9th house emphasis in her family: her parents are teachers, brother is a lawyer, etc. Although as you say since Jupiter and Saturn don't perfect the square before changing signs so it looks like even though they exalt each other they don't get together.

As for 9th house connections with me, well I'm studying a psychology degree part-time, and going on holiday to Morocco in a couple of months, but I don't think either of those are relevant. Although I see the North Node in the 9th house - the Node usually represents abundance ?

Of course, this all assumes that the chart really is about romance, which, as I said, I'm not so sure about. However the problem with looking at a chart in a more general way is that it's hard to come up with a decent interpretation unless you can decide which planet signifies what and stick with it.

jupRx
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as advice to take from the chart, Iíd take the basic themes of the chart and fixate of them first. The basic facts Ė late ASC, (time has past for this relationship), your planet ruled by hers, in her house, but it itís detriment (this isnít so good for you), her planet in the 11th, ruled by you (she really likes you, but as a friend).

Deb told me that a chart shows what will happen if we proceed down out present course of action, not what has to happen, but will happen if we keep on doing what are doing now. Let me take a guess here and apply that to this situation. That hard and prominent square between the Moon and Uranus shows that a break, a split up of some sort or another will happen if you keep on doing what youíre tending to do. So maybe it wouldnít be a good idea to mention your feelings to her. You can tell when women are interested in you. Yeah, some people can be shy and not express their feelings openly, but you can still tell. You get a gut feeling, receive a certain kind of look, receive a lot of attention, you get asked a lot of personal question, i.e., ďDo you have a girlfriend?Ē, ďWhat do you like to do for fun?Ē, ďDo you like doing this or that?Ē. So unless youíre getting some good signs from her and I mean some clear signs, I might just hold off on doing much of anything in the way of telling her that you sent her the flowers, or things like that. Just take it easy with her. Like I said, if she really wants something more, youíll know, so asking isnít really needed and does run the risk of that Uranus split that is in this chart.

What about Mercury or Jupiter? Not the main events here. Besides, Mercury is combust and canít do anything here. I brought up Jupiter just to toss around some ideas. Itís not the main event.
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jupRx



Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 21

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice, that's pretty much what my initial thoughts about the chart were, before I went off on the illness tangent.

Often the best answer to this kind of question is to step away from the astrology software and use your eyes and ears... Smile

jupRx
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Kinnelon, New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But what do you think about his question in a general sense? Can a chart switch subjects on you, say from romance to your job or to your house? And if so, how would you tell?


Hi Mark,
we've had a debate or two on this subject here before and my feeling about this is that a horary doesn't switch subjects but will most certainly give a clear over-all view of the circumstances *surrounding the question* itself, and this overview will always be described by the significators - their condition, sign, house, and aspects, both separating and applying.
Think of it this way: if your best friend came to you asking for advice on where he had left his wallet, would you spend any time telling him that he was about to get a head cold, or would you focus on where he might have left his wallet? If the wallet had fallen out of his jacket when he sneezed it might be relevant, but otherwise the head-cold is of no importance to him whatsoever. If your friend had wanted to know about his health, he'd have asked, right?
In my view an horary will answer your question (assuming the question is clear and succinct) and won't go off on tangents when there's no need to do so. Your doctor isn't likely to start giving you advice on the winner of the 2.30 at Kempton Park if you go to him with severe pains in your chest. Nor will the universe, and I for one am deeply grateful to it for sticking to the point Smile

Just my 2 pence-worth....
==
Pete
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