magic and astrology 1 by AstroNovice whats the general philosophy regarding the interaction between magic and astrology? I mean at first the two things seem to be incompatible, but obviously this cant entirely be the case since stuff like astrological magic exists. That being said whats a good analogy to understand their relationship? For me, at the current moment I see astrological influences as being the predominant force that ultimately decides everything, while magic is merely a non-physical way of tapping into latent astrological energies that would otherwise be expressed in a physical/ordinary manner. (thus magic is typically used when physical modes of action are impossible/inappropriate) Does this sound fairly accurate? Furthermore, exactly what are the limitations of magic? For me I feel that magically speaking, people can only experience that which is shown in their natal chart and even with all the magic in the world they cannot alter their natal promise. Likewise, I feel that everyone has a certain potential promised in the natal chart, but not everybody realizes that potential due to temperament, environment, etc. So would it be reasonable to assume that through magic we are able to maximize the potential promised in our natal chart while being unable to change the natal promise itself? Or can magic overcome that? Quote Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:16 pm
2 by epurdue Astrological magic is a branch of electional astrology, so it's basically taking advantage of good placements. Most of the source literature says that as magicians, we are actually dealing spirits associated with the planets rather than the planets themselves. Personally I'd argue that astrology in general works this way. As for what what it can accomplish, there are different schools of thought on this. Personally, I don't believe it overrides the natal chart, but it can strengthen what is there. It can also be used in a more devotional way, since we are dealing with spirits. An old teacher of mine once told me that magic can act like roots on a tree. The deeper the roots are, the less easily the tree can be blown over. It won't change the essential nature of someone, but it can help strengthen them and smooth the rough spots over. Quote Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:03 am
3 by AstroNovice thanks for the insightful reply! I really loved the analogy you gave me. So basically it sounds like more or less, our thoughts on the matter are about the same then? Quote Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:13 am
4 by epurdue I'd agree, but again there are different opinions on this. I know some very competent magicians who'd disagree. Of course this is the source of many a good natured argument. Quote Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:02 am
5 by AstroNovice wow that sounds really interesting. Can you tell me some of the arguments they make for being able to overpower astrological influences? Are they too also knowledgeable about astrology? Quote Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:59 am
6 by epurdue I think it's basically that through magic, one can connect to the higher spheres and transcend fate. Essentially the natal chart is the "default" state that people are born into, and by gaining wisdom they can overcome it. It actually has some support in the "Corpus Hermeticum". There isn't one overarching way to approach this, so you have to develop a personal philosophy. Yes I'd consider these people knowledgeable too. Quote Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:09 am
7 by AstroNovice I read something similar about ancient practioneers of taoism who said something about being able to transcend fate once you become enlightened. Of course at the time I wrote off such an observation because I assumed that they were not aware of astrology. However hearing that other people who ARE knowledgeable about astrology saying the same thing makes me take what they said a lot more seriously. Sorry to keep bothering you, but do you know any other sources that I can read up more about this? Or about magic in general? (any magic forums you know would be great) Quote Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:24 am
8 by Deb Have you visited Christopher Warnock's site at http://www.renaissanceastrology.com If not, follow the link on the home page to "Getting Started in TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY & MAGIC" - might lead you somewhere useful. Quote Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:01 am
9 by Paul AstroNovice I know next to nothing about astrological magic, however Ben Dykes has written a book on the subject: http://www.bendykes.com/astromagic.php And the good news is that he's offering 20% off until the 8th of December: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7945 Quote Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:06 am
10 by epurdue The two best sources are "The Picatrix", the Latin version of which is translated by John Michael Greer and Christopher Warnock. It's quite easy to find. The other is "Three Books of Occult Philosophy" by H.C. Agrippa. There are two versions: one translated in the 1600s by J.F. (there is a version published in the 90s annotated by Donald Tyson, using J.F.'s translation), and my upcoming translation. Book one is out. The rest is in revision phase now, so some time next year. Quote Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:27 pm
11 by epurdue Oh and the third, while not specifically magic, is the "Corpus Hermeticum". It's the philosophical basis for astrology, magic, and alchemy - all of which are the three hermetic arts. Pretty much every astrologer between the medieval period and renaissance were very familiar with this book. The Brian Copenhaver translation is best. Quote Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:29 pm