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"saving" a planet in cadent or succedent house
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Location: United States

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: "saving" a planet in cadent or succedent house Reply with quote

traditionally speaking, a planet in a cadent or succedent house is weak and lacks the power to act right? So, if said "weak" planet is aspecting (by degree) a planet placed on an angle does that "give" the weakened cadent or succedent planet a way out? Does this require reception, or is the mere fact that the weakened planet is aspecting an angular planet enough?
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only cadent planets are weak, succeedent are middling in strength and can perform on their own, especially the 11th/5th.

An aspect to an angular planet doesn't have to be by degree, application is enough/required and reception is always a bonus, especially in cases when the helper i.e. the angular planet happens to be a malefic.

Regards,
Goran
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AstroNovice



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Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok thank you for the informative reply Very Happy

I have one more related question that I was wondering if you could help me with. Namely, assume that a planet is cadent, if its dispositor is angular does that also provide an "out" for the planet? Or does this require an angular aspect between the cadent planet and its dispositor? I recall reading that an angular dispositor can give an out to a planet but I just want to make sure.
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AstroNovice wrote:
ok thank you for the informative reply Very Happy

I have one more related question that I was wondering if you could help me with. Namely, assume that a planet is cadent, if its dispositor is angular does that also provide an "out" for the planet? Or does this require an angular aspect between the cadent planet and its dispositor? I recall reading that an angular dispositor can give an out to a planet but I just want to make sure.


It's certainly good for a cadent planet to have an angular dispositor, but the best situation involves close applicative aspect between the two. Yet much will depend upon the ruler's overall condition if we bear in mind that the ruler indicates the kind/quality of the outcome of the cadent planet's significations.

Moreover,ancient authorities speak about applications from cadent/succeedent planets to the ones in the angles as signifying improvement/strengthening/advancement in the matters signified by the cadent/succeedent planets.

Regards,
Goran
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AstroNovice



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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok got it, thanks!
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learned that ruler of the house in the house can realize the affairs of the house. I have Jupiter in Sag in the 6th. It also rules 10 and 2, and I have always been able to earn a living by working in my profession as a nurse. So although cadent it seems strong enough to act.
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AstroNovice



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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm, thats interesting. I guess that makes sense. What planets does your jupiter aspect? So jupiter is not trining MC at all?
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Yukionna



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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MC is 27 Aqu, Jupi 3 Sag. So 6 degree orb...and no planets on cusp 10 or in the 10th. In fact, the only aspect Jupi has, is separative with Venus, but the orb is so wide, I don't consider it. It's whole sign really, so they can see each other, but that's it. But, Venus is angular, at least in Alcabitius. So maybe there is something there. I might have to reconsider Venus's role. Hmm..

But that doesn't change the fact, that as far as I know, planet in the house, ruling the house, should be able to act. No matter where it is. Is there sth like that in your own chart?
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cor scorpii



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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yukionna wrote:
I learned that ruler of the house in the house can realize the affairs of the house. I have Jupiter in Sag in the 6th. It also rules 10 and 2, and I have always been able to earn a living by working in my profession as a nurse. So although cadent it seems strong enough to act.


The ruler of the 10th is not necessarily the same as a professional significator, the same applies to the ruler of the 2nd. So it may be something entirely different that signifies/is responsible (at least for the greater part) for the mentioned topics.

Regards,
Goran
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Janis Valkovskis



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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I should say that the places of power are whole sign angles and the quadrant MC/IC axis (it is proved by my experience of judging soccer charts). If MC does not fall in the 10th sign, the place of nonagesimal should be favoured.

What exactly happens is that the planet in a weak place benefits at the expense of the planet in a strong place, and conversely, the planet in a strong place is weakened by the planet in a weak place. The effect depends much on who is the pusher - the planet in a strong place or the planet in a weak place.

For example, we have an angular Jupiter which is receiving an application from a cadent Mercury. Mercury here benefits because of the angular Jupiter to whom it has handed over all of its management, power, etc., while Jupiter is weakened by such an application. Now Jupiter is obliged to manage not so much his own things but the stuff that was delegated to him by Mercury. For his own stuff he has too little time left.

In life what is governed by Jupiter in a chart suffers, but what is governed by Mercury starts prospering. In soccer, it translates into the win of the Mercury team and the defeat of the Jupiter team. The effect is more evident if one of them happens to be the dispositor (almuten) of the other.

Whether a reception is a bonus or an affliction depends on the context of the chart. We normally would not like to receive the lord of the 8th.
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Yukionna



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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cor scorpii wrote:


The ruler of the 10th is not necessarily the same as a professional significator, the same applies to the ruler of the 2nd. So it may be something entirely different that signifies/is responsible (at least for the greater part) for the mentioned topics.

Regards,
Goran


True, but ruler of a house in another house does connect the affairs of both houses, which in this case are professional life and work/illness, and money and property. Jupiter is also Almuten of Pars Spiritus and there was always a very strong sense of idealism and spirituality connected with what I did; I felt for a long time that what I did served something higher, beyond personal interests. Now I know off course that that there's egotism in everything, including spirituality and altruism.
As my professional life played such a big role in my life, I can't imagine that Jupiter is indeed considerably weakened by its cadent position. I just don't see it.

Yuki
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Yukionna



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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Janis Valkovskis wrote:

The effect depends much on who is the pusher - the planet in a strong place or the planet in a weak place.

For example, we have an angular Jupiter which is receiving an application from a cadent Mercury. Mercury here benefits because of the angular Jupiter to whom it has handed over all of its management, power, etc., while Jupiter is weakened by such an application. Now Jupiter is obliged to manage not so much his own things but the stuff that was delegated to him by Mercury. For his own stuff he has too little time left.


Janis,
I find this a bit confusing. Are you refering to 'pushing power'? In this case Mercury as the applying planet would have to be in its own dignity, and Jupiter would receive, and benefit from whatever strength Mercury has
But that's not what you write. So is it something else entirely?
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Janis Valkovskis



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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps, I was a little bit unclear in choosing technical terms, but I believe I conveyed the idea the right way. I was not referring to pushing power in a strict technical sense, I meant it as the delegation of the matters of the applying planet (swifter planet) to the receiving planet (slower planet). Jupiter and Mercury just happened to be used in my hypothetical example.

OK, we have Cancer on MC with exalted Jupiter here, and we have a 6th house/sign Mercury in Pisces. It is clear that whatever is signified by Mercury gains because of its application to its exalted lord, and whatever is signified by Jupiter suffers because of he having to receive the application of the debilitated Mercury from a weak place. The composite strength of Jupiter - Mercury, of course, has not changed, but what has changed is Jupiter's ability to successfully deal with his own matters because of he having to handle those of Mercury.

This is what I meant. I will elaborate a little bit more when I have time. Probably tomorrow.
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 376

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its still not clear for me of how planets more active if in cadent but place of their joy. Like Mars in 6th, Saturn in 12th, Moon in 3rd.
In horary it was stated that position adds strength and importance. But how about "saving" and making more accidentally valid?
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Janis Valkovskis wrote:
Perhaps, I was a little bit unclear in choosing technical terms, but I believe I conveyed the idea the right way. I was not referring to pushing power in a strict technical sense, I meant it as the delegation of the matters of the applying planet (swifter planet) to the receiving planet (slower planet). Jupiter and Mercury just happened to be used in my hypothetical example.

OK, we have Cancer on MC with exalted Jupiter here, and we have a 6th house/sign Mercury in Pisces. It is clear that whatever is signified by Mercury gains because of its application to its exalted lord, and whatever is signified by Jupiter suffers because of he having to receive the application of the debilitated Mercury from a weak place. The composite strength of Jupiter - Mercury, of course, has not changed, but what has changed is Jupiter's ability to successfully deal with his own matters because of he having to handle those of Mercury.

This is what I meant. I will elaborate a little bit more when I have time. Probably tomorrow.


It has been said that reception breaks malice (Sahl, Bonatti) and angular planet is sufficiently strong to handle his own matters as well as long as it is the receiver of the disposition and not the pusher.

Regards,
Goran
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