question about daughter

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I have 2 children and a question about my youngest, age 2 yr old daughter. She has always been incredibly totally attached to me (ie she owns me!) since birth. Sometimes she seems to me to be incredibly impacted by stranger anxiety, while normal at this age, for her it seems to be extreme. I've always wondered about whether this stems from her saturn opposition to moon.

I see her moon is exalted in Taurus regardless that it is in 12H. Her Saturn is exalted in Libra, opposing it. My question is whether the opposition is MORE pronounced because moon/saturn are both exalted in their positions? Or, is she faring better for this opposition because they are deemed "better" in their influence being exalted planets?

Furthermore, as my understanding is that an exalted moon should see the native to tend toward stability. My little girl is definitely strong and stubborn, strong willed but in terms of the freaking out and needing me when going through any kind of transition (ie up from naptime, not sleeping well overnight with repeated wakings even after age 2 now, not eating well, etc.) I guess her demeanor surprises me a little. I'm wondering if the jupiter conjunctiion impacts negatively in any way with the moon in 12H?

Thoughts appreciated!
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Re: question about daughter

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Hi,starlightstarbright !
starlightstarbright wrote: I see her moon is exalted in Taurus regardless that it is in 12H. Her Saturn is exalted in Libra, opposing it. My question is whether the opposition is MORE pronounced because moon/saturn are both exalted in their positions? Or, is she faring better for this opposition because they are deemed "better" in their influence being exalted planets?
Personally, I wouldn't say that the aspect is more pronounced - better handled, more likely . When a planet is placed in some or one of its own major dignities it is, simply that - dignified. The essential dignity allows the planet to express its true nature and to act more openly and to remain true to itself. That, however, does not mean that a planet that is traditionally labeled a "malefic", will express its worst sides or turn an aspect that is, by its own nature stressful into an even bigger conflict. Quite the contrary! Major dignities help the planets to be more generous, not worse than when not dignified. The astrologers often use the analogy of a warm hos when thy talk about planets in their own domicile; colloquially - even a malefic will not make a mess in his own home. In this case, the planets are not in their own rulership but, they are still essentially dignified. I believe you get the logic- the exaltation does not put more heaviness to an opposition.
If your question, on the other hand, is - does that mean they're not able to cooperate with other planets (which can, obviously, be an obstacle with oppositions), although I would not say that an exalted planet is, in its essence, arrogant, the lack of mutual reception would, in such a situation, potentially, be an indicator of that. In this case, there is a very weak one-way reception but, it is also an out-of sign opposition. And, whilst I tend to see such aspects as real aspects, I don't usually assign them the strength of a partile aspect. In this case, the aspect is actually a separating one which additionally decreases its strength.
Furthermore, as my understanding is that an exalted moon should see the native to tend toward stability. My little girl is definitely strong and stubborn, strong willed but in terms of the freaking out and needing me when going through any kind of transition (ie up from naptime, not sleeping well overnight with repeated wakings even after age 2 now, not eating well, etc.) I guess her demeanor surprises me a little. I'm wondering if the jupiter conjunctiion impacts negatively in any way with the moon in 12H?
I have Mercury (the ruler of my Ascendant) conjunct Jupiter inside the 12th and opposing the Moon inside my 6th so, I can actually relate to her chart. Mercury opposing Moon often suggests the influence of an overprotective mother (which, in my case, is true) and, in a way, I would say that her chart, the opposition of the 10th ruler (Saturn) with the Moon holds a similar promise. In addition, her ruler being placed inside the rulership of Saturn (L10), close to Pluto and receiving a trine from the Moon could be an additional testimony of her attachment to you (the 9th rules dreams, the 12th rules fears and dark places - she needs you to hush away the bad dreams. :D But, I notice that she is a very little girl and, although I'm sure that you're starting to notice differences between her and your other child, I don't think you should be very worried- there is plenty of time for her to establish her own independence. I have noticed that kid with many planets inside the 12th often express weird periods and have sudden "attacks" of sadness but, that doesn't mean that it will stay like that for ever. I used to have such phases as a kid but, at the of of 15, I became the main prankster in my school. :) Don't forger that the influence of Jupiter describes her as a funny girl.

Cheers,

aglaya

Re: question about daughter

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[/quote]

I have Mercury (the ruler of my Ascendant) conjunct Jupiter inside the 12th and opposing the Moon inside my 6th so, I can actually relate to her chart. Mercury opposing Moon often suggests the influence of an overprotective mother (which, in my case, is true) and, in a way, I would say that her chart, the opposition of the 10th ruler (Saturn) with the Moon holds a similar promise. In addition, her ruler being placed inside the rulership of Saturn (L10), close to Pluto and receiving a trine from the Moon could be an additional testimony of her attachment to you (the 9th rules dreams, the 12th rules fears and dark places - she needs you to hush away the bad dreams. :D But, I notice that she is a very little girl and, although I'm sure that you're starting to notice differences between her and your other child, I don't think you should be very worried- there is plenty of time for her to establish her own independence. I have noticed that kid with many planets inside the 12th often express weird periods and have sudden "attacks" of sadness but, that doesn't mean that it will stay like that for ever. I used to have such phases as a kid but, at the of of 15, I became the main prankster in my school. :) Don't forger that the influence of Jupiter describes her as a funny girl.

Cheers,

aglaya[/quote]

Aglava - thank you so much for responding and educating me answering my original question on strength of planets.

In regards to merc opp moon = overbearing mom - Guilty! :) My son has exact opp aspect of merc/moon. So it seems to make sense perhaps my daughter may also feel my overprotection LOL

My son has now at age 4 only in the past couple months made considerable progress in terms of his temperament becoming more even. He has Jupiter, neptune, moon, chiron all in 12H while my daughter has jup conj moon there. Just FYI :)

Thanks - best!

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You're welcome, I'm glad if you find my answer useful.
In regards to merc opp moon = overbearing mom - Guilty! Smile My son has exact opp aspect of merc/moon. So it seems to make sense perhaps my daughter may also feel my overprotection LOL
That too can be handled. When the planets involved in such an aspect are receiving the aspects from another planets, the other aspects offer the possibility of relaxing the tension by using their symbolism. They involve their own energies and the energies of the houses where they are placed.
No one can judge you for being overprotective, it goes beyond just your relationship with your children- the need to make sure they are always ok (calling the headmaster of their school the minute you hear the ambulance siren, like my mother used to do :D ), is grounded in your own fears and need to keep everything under control. But, the aspects can, not only help your kids to relativise the influence coming from you, but also help you release the tension and become more relaxed. That is the normal consequence of living with other people, after all!
When I moved away to college, I was one of those rare students who didn't at all feel lost - I wanted that independence and I enjoyed every single thing about it. However, I noticed that I didn't know how to do just about anything! :) My parents never made me cook, clean, do the laundry or even throw away the garbage. My mother used to say "There is no need for a kid to throw dirt on her childhood by carrying garbage to the bin!". Or "The kids are not our maids, we should take care of them, not the other way around!" And, whilst I appreciated her impulse to give me a carefree childhood, back then I almost felt angry because I wasn't prepared for that kind of life at all. I learned most of the things my own, of course, but, even today I sometimes laugh when I notice that we prepare the same dish in a completely different way - she is a great cook and I instantly bought myself a few cookbooks to learn how to make them myself. It's odd, however, that I never learned how to make them from her.
But, over time, I also managed to relax her as well. I would mock her for being constantly worried and always making sure that she doesn't insult anyone (even if that means being insulted by the others). My L1 Mercury conjunct Jupiter and receiving a sextile from Mars tends to make fun out of everything and makes me need to able to express myself freely - I won't insult you, but, I will say what I mean. :) That energy was slowly transferred onto my mother through the opposition with the Moon. I once told her that she is sometimes just "too stiff" and she should probably start to swear every now and then. :) She, then told me that, although she has never said a bad word in her life, when they woke her up from the anesthesia after having a c-section when I was born, she started swearing like mad. :lala I'm pretty sure that it was the influence of my chart. Nowadays she swears a lot - when no one can hear her. When she drops a casserole in the kitchen, when she hits a bathroom cabinet with her head... Awhile ago she phoned me and said that she had a confession to make - she sat in a pub with her friend and they waited for the waiter to show up for no less than 20 minutes. The pub was, by the way, half empty and the waiter was sitting on a chart playing sudoku. Normally, she would have waited for him and ordered a cup of coffee but this time, she noticed as to how agitated she was by his behaviour and decided to act upon it - she waited and, when he finally arrived and said:"How can I help you?", she replied:"You could have helped my about 20 minutes ago, now you can only escort me to the exit!". And she left! At first she thought that her friend would be mad but she actually applauded her! :) My Mom says that she was actually shivering for half an hour after that because she had never done anything of the kind earlier but she also said that she felt very liberated. She remained polite but, she made sure that no one treats her as an invisible person. We sometime laugh and say that, after she had raised me up, I had to start raising her!. :)
WE influence each other and make people around us change just like we change under their influence - no aspect is a one way direction.
It is always better to have an overprotective mother than a careless mother!
My son has now at age 4 only in the past couple months made considerable progress in terms of his temperament becoming more even. He has Jupiter, neptune, moon, chiron all in 12H while my daughter has jup conj moon there. Just FYI Smile
I already like him! :)
No wonder you didn't have to tuck him in, his head is full of (bead time) stories as it is! :' You should probably write down everything he says- I invented my own language when I was a kid (Mercury conjunct Jupiter trine Neptune).

Cheers again,

aglaya

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Allow me to introduce a differing view here: Moon at 2 Taurus and Saturn at 26 Libra, can not see each other: they are in disjunct signs. That might indicate that there is a problem between necessities (saturn) and personal goals/ambition (L10), and communication (L3) and/or feelings and mother (Moon). No conflict like an opposition, but more like a not understanding, hearing, one another, no appropriate exchange.

Being practiced in applying Tad Mann's "logarithmic timescale", I cannot help but see that Venus/Pluto midpoint is smack on the 9th cusp.
Venus = daugher, being L1, but also mother, this being a day-chart.
Pluto (ofcourse) is intense critical situation.
Cusp 9 = (within the LTS) conceptionpoint. So this points to "challenging" context for or at, concepton. Metaphorically, conception stands for creation, spiritual evolution, personal development and wisdom. So your daughter's soul may have opted for a intense pathway in(to) life!

Moon and Jupiter are squaring the MC, which (still within the confines of the LTS) reflects the moment that you, the mother, realised you were pregnant. So that would indicate tensions about being pregnant, which are then "taken over" by the child in the womb. "A feeling of helplesness" comes to mind in this perspective, Moon being in the 12th of seclusion and/or illness.
I think from this chart, commucation, sharing what she feels, experiences, thinks, might be a challenge for (and with) your daugher...!
Herman

http://www.hervaro.be

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hervaro wrote:Allow me to introduce a differing view here: Moon at 2 Taurus and Saturn at 26 Libra, can not see each other: they are in disjunct signs. That might indicate that there is a problem between necessities (saturn) and personal goals/ambition (L10), and communication (L3) and/or feelings and mother (Moon). No conflict like an opposition, but more like a not understanding, hearing, one another, no appropriate exchange.

Being practiced in applying Tad Mann's "logarithmic timescale", I cannot help but see that Venus/Pluto midpoint is smack on the 9th cusp.
Venus = daugher, being L1, but also mother, this being a day-chart.
Pluto (ofcourse) is intense critical situation.
Cusp 9 = (within the LTS) conceptionpoint. So this points to "challenging" context for or at, concepton. Metaphorically, conception stands for creation, spiritual evolution, personal development and wisdom. So your daughter's soul may have opted for a intense pathway in(to) life!

Moon and Jupiter are squaring the MC, which (still within the confines of the LTS) reflects the moment that you, the mother, realised you were pregnant. So that would indicate tensions about being pregnant, which are then "taken over" by the child in the womb. "A feeling of helplesness" comes to mind in this perspective, Moon being in the 12th of seclusion and/or illness.
I think from this chart, commucation, sharing what she feels, experiences, thinks, might be a challenge for (and with) your daugher...!
Thank you for your comments - here is my feedback about your insights-
The chart as you interpret is very much correct in suggesting her pregnancy for me was very intense. While we were trying for a 2nd baby at the time, her conception was surprising in the quickness of it :) It was a tremendously difficult pregnancy in that I suffered partum depression during the first 1-2 trimesters, I carried her lying horizontal instead of vertically (resulting in c sec) which really messed up the alignment of my body to this day my body is not even, it is longer on my right side! I had severe nausea, anemia, border line gestational diabetes, etc. In fact, I will say I will never have another baby because I think another pregnancy would kill me after that experience.

There was a time frame that I actually considered terminating the pregnancy it was early on and I attribute the partum depression for that feeling. I was lethargic, sad, totally miserable throughout almost 2/3 of the pregnancy. There was also a lot of fear, anxiety, yes helplessness and to an extent anger on my part due to my family situation. It's another story but I'm an only child and my dad is a gambling addict and for unexplained reasons my mother does not talk with me. So the physical burden of working, having a 2 yr old and being pregnant with another one really took a toll psychologically on me knowing that I had nobody around. My friends are home in Chicago while I make my home in DC where my husband is from. We really don't have many friends or much family for support. My husband is close to an older brother and his dad which is why we remain in the area but they are unable to help us with the kids for example nor am I especially close to them. So there is a great deal of loneliness that the pregnancy brought to light just because physically I was so miserable.

Fast forward to her birth which was not nearly as excruciating as my son's :) I had a very sick feeling that this child would be dreadfully sick/unhappy based on my horrible pregnancy. In actuality, we have discovered how happy and adventurous she is however. In terms of the attachment to me - I have often wondered if she picked up on me considering terminating the pregnancy and because I did not - she is that much more attached to me? Maybe that though drove fear into her so as a result she needs more from me psychologically? In any case, she IS intense and can be kinda mean actually. She very much knows what she wants and does not seem to have any issues communicating it LOL She does not hesitate to take what is hers (toys, etc) when she feels like it! She is also full of drama :)

As pointed out by my post, the 2 concerns I had were the attachment to me and seemingly sometimes she does not like to be around too many people but again, it's all about me. As long as I'm there, she's ok. In other words - I am the center of her world but there is an intensity there about that. Maybe she is just really intense though?

She is amazingly smart and developmentally, I am not seeing anything concerning relating to communications. Not sure if all this may be changing but I will say she was a lot easier younger. As she gets older, I have observed that she is not as "easy" (pickier, more likely to be mischevious, more tempermental, more intense with needing me, etc.). All normal in a 2 yr old but I would have thought she would have been a more difficult baby in some respects and gotten easier as she grew..

re - for aglaya

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I already like him! :)
No wonder you didn't have to tuck him in, his head is full of (bead time) stories as it is! :' You should probably write down everything he says- I invented my own language when I was a kid (Mercury conjunct Jupiter trine Neptune).

Cheers again,

aglaya[/quote]

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For fun, here is my son's chart for your review. I've heard countless stories of little ones wanting to sleep with their parents. My kid is the total opposite! He loves his independence and cannot sleep unless it's his own room by himself! I'm sure a lot of parents would be jealous LOL Something "lifted" recently - I used to be so worried developmentally about him. He was so cranky, moody, unsocial, seemed to be in his own world and had a speech delay. But recently, he's turned into to wonderfully social, won't stop talking, curious and engaging little boy. I know he was born with Mercury R - talk about a late bloomer :) It will be interesting to watch him grow. He seems to really love art, music and dancing especially. Thank you!

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Oh, thank you for such a detailed background, it is always nice to have such examples at hand. Very generous and thoughtful of you! Hervaro nicely spotted pregnancy issues.
And, thank you for the chart of your son. When I said that I already liked him, I couldn't even imagine as to how many similarities his chart had with my own.
I've heard countless stories of little ones wanting to sleep with their parents. My kid is the total opposite! He loves his independence and cannot sleep unless it's his own room by himself!
I am 35 and I still prefer my own bedroom. :)
And, this 12th house influence goes beyond just sleeping - it also includes a need for private space, for some time alone during the day etc.
I used to be so worried developmentally about him. He was so cranky, moody, unsocial, seemed to be in his own world
Like I said, moodiness can be expected with 12th house Moon or L1 inside the 12th. More so with a Pisces Moon inside the 12th.
and had a speech delay.
I saw this coming from the moment I opened the chart!
Mercury/Moon oppositions often have this as a result. More so if a mute or "slow voice" signs (such as Pisces) are involved. But, it is never black and white.
A "plastic" or shallow examination of my own chart would probably lead many people to believe that I was an ultimate example of a person suffering from difficulty with speech. Mercury was stationary retrograde at the time when I was born, it is inside the 12th, in Leo,, receiving an opposition from a cadent and peregrine Moon inside the 6th. But, the Moon is also in a sextile with Mars and conjunct Jupiter - I started talking sooner than most other kids, I could read and write at the age of 4, I won a few recitation contests by the age of 15 and I even graduated performing arts at an artistic academy. I actually used my voice a lot professionally. Only every now and then, in benign situations such as when I go into a shop and ask for something, I notice that my voice and my tongue can still fail me :) - a strange sound and an inarticulate sentance comes from my moth. Then the lady across the counter usually leans towards me and says - What did you say?
His Venus is inside a mute sign, like mine, and he probably won't be an opera singer :) but, whilst I had a protection of Jupiter, his Mercury, although cadent and retrograde, is essentially strong and, just like his Moon, beneficially influenced by Venus. Even if is experiencing troubles with speech at the moment, he is most likely to start controlling his voice and speech with time. The potential to overcome the obstacles is certainly there.

Allow me to introduce a differing view here:
When hervaro mentioned this, I realised that, although I mentioned it briefly in my first reply, I should have probably explained my standpoint a little better.
Astrologers basically fall into two categories: those who respect platic aspects and dismiss the out of sign connections and those who don't. I belong to the later.
It is actually good that you got both opinions here.

The reason why I don't dismiss out-of-sign aspects is that I find it hard to not notice the mathematical (or geometrical) connection between two planets. If the planets are only a few degrees apart from forming a partile aspect, then I see them as being in an aspect. I don't see the sign boundary as a closed door. This, however, does not mean that I entirely disregard the fact that the planet cannot form an aspect from the signs they are currently placed in - their current signs affect their shape, their nature and their essential dignity whilst the sign border carries its own symbolical meaning. (This can be very interesting to examine in Horary charts when one of the significators is about to switch signs and move into a completely different surrounding - it's an indication of change or a barrier that needs to be removed.).

Similarly, i don't take platic aspects into consideration. In case this needs clarification- an example of such an aspect (although the term "platic" is not always assigned the same meaning) would be- Moon on 28? Pisces and Mercury on 8? Virgo. The signs are across the axis and the planets can only form an opposition with each other from those signs but, at the same time, they're 20 degrees apart and cannot form a partile aspect any more. In such cases, i do acknowledge the energy of the opposition but I don't consider the planets to be in an opposition.

Cheers,

aglaya

re:

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I appreciate your clarification and added insights as I am very much a novice at astrology. I think it's fascinating and believe that there's much to be learned through this science to benefit us should we want to be. But I really don't know enough to know about out of sign, bounds, etc. the phrases that I often hear/read about.

In terms of my son - it has been noted to me that all his planets have accidental dignity (I think?) which means that he will fare well in life regardless of the ups and downs :) is what I gather. It's funny because my son has his sun in leo of course and my daughter's moon is exalted that I still feel that my son is my moon and my daughter is my sun - I love my children so much but they seem to be totally different in their ways. My daughter can be described as "sunny" and my son more moody and mysterious. I'm sure with time as they age they will change but I quite like that they are both so clearly of the luminaries :)

Cheers.

Re: re:

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starlightstarbright wrote:I appreciate your clarification and added insights as I am very much a novice at astrology. .
You're welcome. :) Talking to people who have recently become interested in Astrology is always beneficial for practitioners who have already spent some time digging through this virtue as it brings them back to the most natural questions and makes them stay connected to the roots of the art.

But I really don't know enough to know about out of sign, bounds, etc. the phrases that I often hear/read about.
In terms of your daughter's chart, you will notice that Saturn is placed in Libra and that the sign that is opposing Libra is actually Aries, not Taurus in which Moon and Jupiter are positioned meaning that they cannot for the exact aspect from the signs they're currently occupying. The two planets are technically placed in the sign which adjacent to the sign opposing Libra.
When hervaro says that the planets cannot see each other it measn exactly that - that they're in the adjacent signs from which they cannot aspect each other. The Astrologers who adhere to the principle mentioned by hervaro, see this as an obstacle to the aspect. As I already mentioned, some of us think that, when the planets are within the orb of aspect, the aspect should be should not be dismissed (it is examined as an out-of-sign aspect but not entirely dismissed). In order to say that the planets are inconjunct or unable to see each other, we'd expect to see them in two adjacent houses and with no aspect between them. In this particular case, the planets are still within the orb of conjunction which is why I would take this aspect into consideration. Of course, the planets are separating from each other which is yet something that needs to be taken seriously.
The sign boundary is simple the end of the previous sign and the beginning of the next one.
In terms of my son - it has been noted to me that all his planets have accidental dignity (I think?) which means that he will fare well in life regardless of the ups and downs Smile is what I gather
accidental dignity occurs when a planet receives strength from its placement in the chart. A planet is accidentally fortified when it is in an angle (1st/4th/7th/12th houses), when it is free from combustion (far enough from the sunbeams), Cazimi (in the heart of the sun or tightly conjunct), in a beneficial aspect with a benefic planet, conjunct a benefic fixed star, direct and swift in motion.
Factors that decrease accidental dignities are cadency (especially when the planet is positioned inside the 6th and 12th house), exposure to sunbeams, retrogradation, slow motion, stressful aspects from malefics, conjunction with malefic fixed stars..
Succedant houses (houses between angles and cadent houses) are, roughly said, neutral. In addition, houses such as the 9th and 11th are by its nature beneficial which is why they are assigned more strength than other falling/succedant houses whilst the 8th house, although not cadent, carries certain weight.

In terms of essential dignities, only the Moon in your son's chart is peregrine (with no essential dignities).

But, nothing is black and white when it comes to the shape of the planets. If a planet is aspected by another body, we also need mutual reception which allows the planets to communicate easily and to mix their energies.

Ups and downs in life are something that we all have to experience. The planetary dignities and aspects often tell us about, not only our ability to deal with the events, but also about our ability to use them to our own advantage or even for a greater purpose.
You might want to check our the natal chart of G.W. Bush - the ruler of his Ascendant is a peregrine Sun inside the 12th whilst Mars, the ruler of his 10th cusp (professional achievements), although ambitious by nature, is actually peregrine inside 2nd where it can only aspect the Sun (separating aspect) and, again, although the Sun naturally rules high achievements, it is peregrine and cannot receive Mars in its own dignities. And, yet, the whole world knows about this mean (literally, the whole world) and he managed to get the best paid and most privileges job in his homeland- twice!

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Moon in Taurus conjunct Jupiter is a very strong and positive Moon. Natal Moon does not have an opposition by sign from Natal Saturn. Currently she may be the cause of worry for her mother when the transiting Saturn is opposing by sign, the sign of Moon. Once Transiting Saturn moves to next sign , things would be alright for you and your daughter :)
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/