Stoicism and Astrology - Robert Zoller 1 by Vasanth Very good article on Stoicism and Astrology by Robert Zoller placing importance on Virtue (From the NCGR Journal - Winter 1987-1988 (Philosophy Issue)) http://www.geocosmic.org/articles/stoicism.shtml Quoting from Robert Zoller's interview - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/zoller.html But to answer your question about astrology more directly: Astrology, for me, is an indication of God's will. God created the cosmos, the lights, the firmament, and all the rest of that sort of stuff for purposes, for signs and times. In the final analysis, there is only one will - and mine is not that will. So, if I can conform myself to that will and work in accordance with it, perhaps there's a chance that I can achieve those goals that I was referring to. Astrology might help me to do that, or at least it might help me to recognize that my efforts, ultimately, are not good enough - there's something larger that has to come into the picture. So, to the degree to which you become humbled by astrology and scared of astrology and realize your own incompetence and insufficiency, I think that you arrive at the first step from which real spiritual work can begin. That's my current opinion on the subject. If astrology leads us to that realization, it has done a major service for mankind. Astrology also, I think, can do service to mankind by showing that things happen in their own times - that the individual human will sometimes appears to be capable of making things happen before their times, but most of the time what people do just nuances, fine-tunes, or twists a little bit the way things actually happen. Quote Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:56 pm
2 by Zagata Thank you for sharing, Vasanth. Robert Zoller is an absolute must for anyone wanting to get deeper into the real, both predictive and spiritual, Astrology. Ancient and Chinese Astrology: https://www.100percentastrology.com/ Quote Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:46 am
3 by waybread Vasanth, if you refer to the Bible and the Jewish and Christian religions, then they are not completely fatalistic. It's not simply a question of finding out what God (or the planets) want, and then getting your *** in gear to conform. Moral choice in the Bible is always an option-- and even an imperative. In the Bible, righteous people sometimes even question God. Also, humans in the Bible are not disconnected from God. We are a small part of what God is. Chapters and verses available upon request. Fatalism in astrology has a much older root than stoicism. The Mesopotamians who invented astrology believed that the planets either were gods, or displayed omens from which the gods' wills could be divined. The ancient Egyptians who long predated stoicism similarly believed in a cosmic order: to shape one's life according to that order was good, to confound it was bad. The ancient Greeks believed in the three Fates, who are not noticeably on the radar for people today. But if we think about it, these are merely "made up" belief systems. We can apply any sort of belief system to astrology that we want. Obviously, we all think there is some necessary correspondence between planets and events on earth or we wouldn't be here; but the extent to which this correspondence is deterministic is a huge question. Quantum physics and neuroscience have much to say on this matter. Quote Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:52 am
4 by Mjacob Waybread Would those chapters and verses include the parable of the talents by any chance? Indeed I would not mind seeing the others.As for philosophy in general I have the idea it is something we read about rather than actually "do" Must read the Zoller article though Matthew Matthew Goulding Quote Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:21 am
5 by waybread mjacob, I was thinking of verses like: "Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you." James 4:8, Zechariah 1:3, Malachi 3:7, Psalm 145:18, &c. "Seek, and you shall find, ask and it shall be given." Matthew 7:7, Luke 11:9, John 14:13, 15:7; Psalm 37:4, Jeremiah 29:13 Beginning with the garden of Eden and the story of Cain and Abel, the Bible has always stressed the human imperative for moral choice. The Bible also stresses the effectiveness of petitionary prayer. Incidentally I am not a Christian-- I merely observe that astrology under Christianity is not bound by astral determinism. Quote Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:24 am
6 by Mjacob Thank you I had not presumed that you were but thanks for the refs. I was just thinking of how God or one of his adherents should judge a sinner with a bad chart. We all have two malefics in our charts after all and they can be literally so Regards Matthew Goulding Quote Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:19 am
7 by waybread Moreover, we would have to question why the kindly, loving God of the monotheistic religions would create an evil person. Except for a few small sects like the Puritans (who believed in predestination) I think their religious view is children are born innocent but can become evil during their lives. I read the Zoller links and find him to be a thoughtful person, but am not sure how or why he reached his conclusions. Quote Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:41 pm
8 by Mjacob Having spent most of my life in the C20th I look back on that era. In the sixties we were optimistic and idealist. but earlier on much wickedness occurred. If a good person suffers and loses hope they can ask why God has abandoned them. It would be facile to tell them to rely on faith but at least charity remains My reply is short but but I do spend time reflecting on the issues you raise Matthew Matthew Goulding Quote Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 am
9 by Mark The excellent BBC Radio 4 programme 'In Our Time' had an episode on Stoicism which is free to listen to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003k9fs Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:00 pm
10 by Konrad Thanks Mark, I will listen to that later. I love that Epictetus quote: "Man is troubled not by events, but by the meaning he gives them." http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com Quote Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:04 pm
11 by Mark Here are some other programmes from the BBC 'In Our Time' series which are connected to the theme of ancient philosophy and religion: Babylon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p004y25j The Library of Ninevah http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00b7r71 The Greek Myths http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0093z1k The Delphic Oracle http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00txj8d The Harmony of the Spheres http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00c1fct Pythagoras: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00p693b Socrates http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007zp21 Cynicism http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003k9js Epicureanism http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qf083 Neoplatonism http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01g62w1 Scepticism http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01kblc3 Materialism http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b009ydlj Gnosticism http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s4rhz The Cult of Mithras http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pg5nt Ptolemy and Ancient Astronomy http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017528d Galen http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03c4dys Boethius (The Consolation of Philosophy) http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00g46p0 Paganism in the Renaissance http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003k9ct Last edited by Mark on Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 3 times in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:09 am
12 by Konrad Thanks Mark. Do you know of any way to rip the audio from the embedded flash player? My usual methods are failing and I would like to listen to these as I work. http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com Quote Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:37 pm