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march 17th mystery chart

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3518
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:02 pm    Post subject: march 17th mystery chart Reply with quote

male chart in tropical zodiac.


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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 412
Location: Kent - England

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First impressions

Mercury in pisces is not a very logical mind. The Moon is opposed to Mars and Saturn is opposed to the previous sign which I believe is form of enclosure but can Jupiter assist from that degree? The moon is in the first house but not the first sign so maybe Venus as asc ruler more important.

More questions than answers at the moment.I see the actual MC is conj NN and opposed by Uranus and would be interested to see what is made of that

Matthew
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 396

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello james_m,

These are the standouts from a cursory look at the chart...

Career-wise, not so easy to read. I would expect some "serious/sober" career (Capricorn MC) done directly before the public (Node conjunct MC, MC-ruler conjunct Descendant).

This person does just as they please and doesn't mind challenging others. (Mars opposite Moon, Uranus opposite Node, and Pluto opposite Sun.) They are likely extremely selfish and/or self-indulgent (Mars-Jupiter quindecile).

The 7th House is relating to both Mars (in and co-ruling) and Saturn (conjunct Dsc) with all-or-nothing Pluto co-ruling. The potential for satisfying, mutually rewarding relationships is slim. The potential for inflaming, burdensome relationships with a lot of brooding is quite high.

Looking forward to the reveal and to see how reliable these (normally reliable) "keys" are...

Thanks for not only posting this in the Traditional section. I always feel a bit out of place there with my virtual Frankenstein of techniques...


James
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 396

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just noticed that you mention (up top) that it's a chart for a male.

With Pluto opposite Venus, Mars opposite Moon, and Mars-Saturn relating to the 7th; this person seems misogynistic on some level... [Uranus at the IC opposing the Node as well as Mars opposite the Moon hint at a problematic maternal relationship.] Saturn, ruling the MC, at the Descendant hints at parental problems being played out directly in relationships.

James
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 295

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you show the chart with the Placidus cusps James M?
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how placidus would like it..


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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 295

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m going to charge into this one ignoring my usual more long winded analytic hierarchical tendencies.

I showed this chart to a friend who said something along the lines of yuck can you imagine anything more unpleasant than a AQ/GE luminary arrangement, She has a point in theory, but to be fair I checked my database and 4 people I got to know reasonably well with these sun –AQ moon -GEM dynamic were all women. 2 conceptual artists, a porn actress and a girl who I can only describe as a giggler.

Option A/
Conceptual artist, loose morals or free love and giggling tendencies. The Sun/Venus (ruler of asc) opposite Pluto dynamic, across the 11th / 5th collective self-expression for the 'benefit' of society reminded me of something I think might have been a Clare Martin Sun Pluto Opposition notion ‘’ an inflated presentation within the context of a barren nothingness’’, which might resonate nicely with some conceptual art. Uranus in the 3rd as well with a rising Gemini moon could talk about a quirky communication style or mental processing being a bit out of the norm. Taurus rising says to me although the monkey may live mainly in their head it will want to produce something more tangible. Neptune in this grand trine mix as well in the 6th which could say something about wanting to escape from the usual meaningless drudgery of the day to day money grind, art is one way of doing so, especially if you get paid as well.

May have been a bit lucky with resources re Jupiter ruler of the 8th in the 2nd house, trine the Sun/Venus conjunction, or dad funding the artspace sort of thing.

Could be a ladies’ man or man's man or both as Chiron in the 10th talks about charm and the Sun/Venus/Pluto dynamic talks about manipulating the object of desire, with not a lot of self esteem at risk perhaps with Saturn not in the mix here. Plus is there any more promiscuous marker than a Mars in- Mr W Beatty- Sag, I think not, and I’ve heard all the ‘’cooking book’’ Wilt Chamberlain Mars in Leo arguments, booooooooooooring.


Option B/

Here I might be taking some liberties with R Hand’s notion on the podcast about AQ/GEM and the ceremonial magic woo woo crowd. The woozie floozie Mercury in Pisces plus no water, so potentially the monkey is removed in thought and behaviour from the mitochondrial DNA perspective, or reality! Does this person sleep on an alter with a talisman up their arse, for the GREATER GOOD?
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PiscesSag



Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moon in Gemini... a person who is talkative and 'needs' to communicate. Dispositor is Mercury in Pisces, poor thing, yet closely trine Saturn, the ruler of the MC. Mercury rules the 2nd. His status and holdings are tied to communication. Mercury lives in the 11th (the 11th often indicates fame, within the context of the natives life...village, state, country, world), suggesting to me this person is a 'communicator', and is 'well known' to be one. In fact, likely a brilliant mind with this combination. Also a loose trine from Uranus to Mercury. Very quick.

Gemini/Pisces
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.”

Sun and Venus conjunct, also in the 11th, Venus the ruler of AC, and in charismatic Aquarius lends itself to this theory of a person who is well known. Both trine Neptune tells me this person may be idolized on some level, at least by his peers.

I believe this person has a 'benefactor', or many. Taurus rising is an 'I use your resources' posture. The ruler of the 8th, Jupiter, in the 2nd house suggests this as well. Jupiter trines the Sun, ruler of the 5th... hmmmm...funded fun. Pluto lives in the 5th and rules the 7th...his 'pleasure' is owned by the 'other'. The square from Pluto to his AC and the opposition of Pluto to his AC ruler Venus, and Sun, ruler of the 4th...maybe he has a general feeling of being 'owned', perhaps by family money, his spouses money, various benefactors, and rails against this at times...although the opposition suggests a possible integration and capitalization of this dynamic. Pluto in Leo, this generational selfcenterd-ness could mix with his Aquarius Sun/Venus, creating a sort of demigog complex. 'I am very powerful and important to the group/humanity'. Also, with the Pluto opposition, his generation is prone to be obsessed with him on some level, while he may have felt this as destructive, especially in his youth, in time he could manipulate this energy.

In relationship, I'd say his 'love style' is detached, The problem he would face is his DC looking for the Scorpio intensity combined with Venus attracting him to a detached partner. In any case, this theme is further exacerbated by the Pluto opposition to his Venus and out of sign square to Mars. He leans towards possessive types yet his Venus finds less joy in this arrangement, his detached Moon doesn't instinctively attach to anyone, and mars would rather be 'free', experiential and easily bored. He may enjoy a swinger arrangement giving him the freedom combined with the intensity of jealousy. Or he may use jealousy as a way to spice things up with a more detached partner. Or very possessive yet does as he pleases. Something like this...Of course, if one finds just the right partner... I could also see a theme of attachment through finance... allowing someone to 'own' him .. almost a boy-toy arrangement with a lack of emotional attachment. A wealthy partner, a practice arrangement in his mind. The tendency to want to be possessed, yet not emotionally 'own-able'.

My intuitive response to this chart is a comely man, charismatic, sociable. While he presents as 'open', he controls every interaction. His Capricorn MC indicates he could be regarded as a wise person, worthy of respect. He presents as 'earthy', or dependable, with his AC/MC combo. Yet, a salesman of sorts. Funny, I imagine him a bit of a dandy.

1. Writer, or orator, recognized as much for his persona as for anything he 'does'. Perhaps a teacher/professor, known for his 'style'.

2. An idealist's leader of some sort, but not necessarily with sincere intention. Gemini Moon...an innate trickster. The Gemini Moon feeding the imaginative Pisces Mercury with wit and verbal trickery.

3. A money manager or curator of valuables. Real estate even.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will reveal the person connected to this chart tonight - westcoast time. last chance if anyone wants to chime in would be today sometime.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
i will reveal the person connected to this chart tonight - westcoast time. last chance if anyone wants to chime in would be today sometime.


Ah, since you said that I will say that I know who the chart belongs to, so it isn't fair for me to comment, except to say I was really impressed by some of the things people said on this thread, and it is as if they are perceiving things about him between the obvious astrological elements, picking up something from looking at the chart in its entirety. Really impressed by what PiscesSag wrote.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3518
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks to everyone who participated in this exercise!

feel free to comment more on the chart, now that i am sharing the person behind the chart. fwiw, he has been in jail for some time and is set for release sometime in the coming year. i was listening to an interview on cbc radio a few weeks ago by a french writer(Emmanuel Carrere) who had written a book on him. i found his interview quite fascinating and was motivated to see if i could find a chart on this fellow romand. as it turns out carrere also has his chart up on adb as well, so i have included that down below for anyone interested in him astrologically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Romand

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Romand,_Jean-Claude

The Adversary: A True Story of Monstrous Deception by Emmanuel Carrere

carrere's adb page - http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Carr%C3%A8re,_Emmanuel
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PiscesSag



Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H James and all,

Here is an article that gets into a few more details of his life long deception. The first bit is a cut and paste of wikipedia, the second half interesting to me.

http://murderpedia.org/male.R/r/romand-jean-claude.htm

It seems that he was known as a university 'lecturer' and 'money manager'. His life was funded by this deception as money manager.

Safe to say his love style was 'detached' yet intense. Confused

Dispositor is Mercury in Pisces, poor thing, yet closely trine Saturn, the ruler of the MC. Mercury rules the 2nd. His status and holdings are tied to communication.

Gemini Moon...an innate trickster. The Gemini Moon feeding the imaginative Pisces Mercury with wit and verbal trickery.

The deception began with a simple lie: Romand claimed that he had passed a second-year medical examination that he did not take. He therefore never qualified as a doctor, a fact unknown to his peers.

Romand fooled his family and friends for 18 years



I believe this person has a 'benefactor', or many. Taurus rising is an 'I use your resources' posture. The ruler of the 8th, Jupiter, in the 2nd house suggests this as well. Jupiter trines the Sun, ruler of the 5th... hmmmm...funded fun. Pluto lives in the 5th and rules the 7th...his 'pleasure' is owned by the 'other'. The square from Pluto to his AC and the opposition of Pluto to his AC ruler Venus, and Sun, ruler of the 4th...maybe he has a general feeling of being 'owned', perhaps by family money, his spouses money, various benefactors, and rails against this at times

3. A money manager or curator of valuables. Real estate even.


Romand lived off the money his wife and he had made by selling an apartment, from his wife's salary and from sums of money which were given to him by various relatives, who relied on his assurances that he was investing the money in various imaginary hedge funds and foreign ventures.

He told his family that his connections from work and his status allowed him to invest money with a return of 18% after tax.

His reputation as an expert finance manager was undeserved: every centime of the 2.5 million francs he stole over the years from his parents, his uncle, his parents in law and his mistress fuelled his lifestyle. A lifestyle that had to be worthy of his professional status: large house, BMW and a private school for the children. At the time of his death, less that 500 (swiss) francs were in his bank account.


1. Writer, or orator, recognized as much for his persona as for anything he 'does'. Perhaps a teacher/professor, known for his 'style'.


He needed a job so he invented one: researcher for the WHO in Geneva, specialising in cardiology. His career was made up from beginning to end, from lecturer at the University of Dijon to head of a clinic in Geneva.

His Capricorn MC indicates he could be regarded as a wise person, worthy of respect. He presents as 'earthy', or dependable, with his AC/MC combo. Yet, a salesman of sorts.

A well respected member of the local community, he was a researcher at the World Health Organisation in Geneva and took an active part in the operation of the local school board.
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more information here;
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2001/jan/14/biography.features

Something they hint at is his girlfriend leaving him might have been the catalyst, or what he may have seen as the reason he failed his exams which led to this lie, then the long term deception. He later took 'revenge' on her, (they got back together and married) or may have seen it this way when the facade started caving in.

Martin's Sun-Pluto ' an inflated presentation within the context of a barren nothingness’’, has an eeire echo in this story. Odd about the con (ceptual) artist semi random linkage.
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PiscesSag



Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A brief abstract as a study into altruistic homicide.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186%2F1744-859X-9-S1-S230/fulltext.html

After a bibliographic review of all reliable sources relative to this clinical case, we shall focus on the subversive events preceding the criminal act and examine three key aspects of Romand's life: 1) his enigmatic relationship with women, and especially with his wife and his mistress 2) *the paternal role model he was for the local community, strongly suggesting that Romand assumed the exceptional role of a sacrificial figure 3) the criminal sequence.

*I thought this descriptive of Capricorn MC.

Romand's criminal gesture finds its own reason only if examined through the specificity of altruistic homicides. He tragically spared his family circle the shaking encounter with an intimate stranger who chose to invent the life he most certainly could have lived. This study represents a step toward understanding altruistic homicide risk.

*Altruistic being a common keyword for Aquarius.
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