Stoicism and Astrology - Robert Zoller

1
Very good article on Stoicism and Astrology by Robert Zoller placing importance on Virtue
(From the NCGR Journal - Winter 1987-1988 (Philosophy Issue))

http://www.geocosmic.org/articles/stoicism.shtml

Quoting from Robert Zoller's interview -
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/zoller.html

But to answer your question about astrology more directly: Astrology, for me, is an indication of God's will. God created the cosmos, the lights, the firmament, and all the rest of that sort of stuff for purposes, for signs and times. In the final analysis, there is only one will - and mine is not that will. So, if I can conform myself to that will and work in accordance with it, perhaps there's a chance that I can achieve those goals that I was referring to. Astrology might help me to do that, or at least it might help me to recognize that my efforts, ultimately, are not good enough - there's something larger that has to come into the picture.

So, to the degree to which you become humbled by astrology and scared of astrology and realize your own incompetence and insufficiency, I think that you arrive at the first step from which real spiritual work can begin. That's my current opinion on the subject. If astrology leads us to that realization, it has done a major service for mankind.

Astrology also, I think, can do service to mankind by showing that things happen in their own times - that the individual human will sometimes appears to be capable of making things happen before their times, but most of the time what people do just nuances, fine-tunes, or twists a little bit the way things actually happen.

3
Vasanth, if you refer to the Bible and the Jewish and Christian religions, then they are not completely fatalistic. It's not simply a question of finding out what God (or the planets) want, and then getting your *** in gear to conform.

Moral choice in the Bible is always an option-- and even an imperative. In the Bible, righteous people sometimes even question God.

Also, humans in the Bible are not disconnected from God. We are a small part of what God is.

Chapters and verses available upon request.

Fatalism in astrology has a much older root than stoicism. The Mesopotamians who invented astrology believed that the planets either were gods, or displayed omens from which the gods' wills could be divined. The ancient Egyptians who long predated stoicism similarly believed in a cosmic order: to shape one's life according to that order was good, to confound it was bad. The ancient Greeks believed in the three Fates, who are not noticeably on the radar for people today.

But if we think about it, these are merely "made up" belief systems. We can apply any sort of belief system to astrology that we want. Obviously, we all think there is some necessary correspondence between planets and events on earth or we wouldn't be here; but the extent to which this correspondence is deterministic is a huge question.

Quantum physics and neuroscience have much to say on this matter.

4
Waybread

Would those chapters and verses include the parable of the talents by any chance?

Indeed I would not mind seeing the others.As for philosophy in general I have the idea it is something we read about rather than actually "do"

Must read the Zoller article though

Matthew
Matthew Goulding

5
mjacob, I was thinking of verses like:

"Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you."
James 4:8, Zechariah 1:3, Malachi 3:7, Psalm 145:18, &c.

"Seek, and you shall find, ask and it shall be given."
Matthew 7:7, Luke 11:9, John 14:13, 15:7; Psalm 37:4, Jeremiah 29:13

Beginning with the garden of Eden and the story of Cain and Abel, the Bible has always stressed the human imperative for moral choice. The Bible also stresses the effectiveness of petitionary prayer.

Incidentally I am not a Christian-- I merely observe that astrology under Christianity is not bound by astral determinism.

6
Thank you

I had not presumed that you were but thanks for the refs. I was just thinking of how God or one of his adherents should judge a sinner with a bad chart. We all have two malefics in our charts after all and they can be literally so

Regards
Matthew Goulding

7
Moreover, we would have to question why the kindly, loving God of the monotheistic religions would create an evil person. Except for a few small sects like the Puritans (who believed in predestination) I think their religious view is children are born innocent but can become evil during their lives.

I read the Zoller links and find him to be a thoughtful person, but am not sure how or why he reached his conclusions.

8
Having spent most of my life in the C20th I look back on that era. In the sixties we were optimistic and idealist. but earlier on much wickedness occurred.

If a good person suffers and loses hope they can ask why God has abandoned them. It would be facile to tell them to rely on faith but at least charity remains

My reply is short but but I do spend time reflecting on the issues you raise

Matthew
Matthew Goulding

11
Here are some other programmes from the BBC 'In Our Time' series which are connected to the theme of ancient philosophy and religion:

Babylon:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p004y25j

The Library of Ninevah
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00b7r71

The Greek Myths
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0093z1k

The Delphic Oracle
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00txj8d

The Harmony of the Spheres
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00c1fct

Pythagoras:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00p693b

Socrates
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007zp21

Cynicism
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003k9js

Epicureanism
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qf083

Neoplatonism
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01g62w1

Scepticism
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01kblc3

Materialism
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b009ydlj

Gnosticism
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s4rhz

The Cult of Mithras
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pg5nt

Ptolemy and Ancient Astronomy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017528d

Galen
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03c4dys

Boethius (The Consolation of Philosophy)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00g46p0

Paganism in the Renaissance
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003k9ct
Last edited by Mark on Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly