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I have never read this book, or any work by this author. But I do wonder just from this snippet if he is confusing accidental fortitude for essential dignity here. In fact I have observed in several birth charts that malefics out of dignity behave differently to malefics in dignity, and that there is a sense of greater freedom and control when the malefics are in dignity, I'm thinking particularly of Mars. There can sometimes be a lack of measured control when Mars is in Cancer and Libra in my experience. I realise I may insult people who have these placements when I say this.

Obviously, as ever, other chart factors need to be taken into account.

Of course in this case the author is talking about mundane astrology and I have not observed the charts of countries so frequently that I could say much about it from a mundane point of view.

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John is this related to the birth chart you showed us in another thread?
You have posted three new topics that seem to be about the same thing or am I missing something here :-?
Matthew Goulding

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Mjacob wrote:John is this related to the birth chart you showed us in another thread?
You have posted three new topics that seem to be about the same thing or am I missing something here :-?
Same book different topics :'

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Got it! Take Saturn conjunct with sun in libra in the tenth. Saturn would aid the sun the and make the native great. But the sun is in fall in libra. Yes but who has a libra sun in the first house? David Cameron the UK prime minister, as a general e.g.
Matthew Goulding

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johnd wrote:The way I see it Paul, Mars with no dignity lacks the weapons to do evil,in Aries or Scorpio he is handed a gun and can kill as much as he likes.he feels powerful but he is even more evil

by the way he was mentioned here
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewt ... &view=next
Well are we talking generally about what we feel malefics are like when dignified? If so then okay.

For me I don't see it that way. Most of the people I know with Mars in Cancer, for example, struggle to assert themselves in a way that is appropriate to the situation and there can be a confusion between being assertive and being aggressive. There can be a tendency to not assert themselves and then when they do they find that it is destructive both to themselves and others. I do feel the position of the Moon and other aspects involved mitigates things of course so I can only talk in the most general way here.

But I think this can be something each of us discovers for themselves. Perhaps your experiences are different. Can I ask, do you have a malefic poorly dignified? I am curious if this is something you're interested in because of your own chart.

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Awaiting a delivery I wondered through old charts. I do not do decumbiture but remembered the time and place when an ambulance came for me and ages ago made and kept a chart. I see Saturn in libra right on the Asc. Mercury opposed a waning moon and mars weakened by the dragon's tale. He didn't do me any good

:-sk
Matthew Goulding

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[quote="Mjacob"]Awaiting a delivery I wondered through old charts. I do not do decumbiture but remembered the time and place when an ambulance came for me and ages ago made and kept a chart. I see Saturn in libra right on the Asc. Mercury opposed a waning moon and mars weakened by the dragon's tale. He didn't do me any good

:-sk[/quote]

But where is Saturn natally?

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Paul wrote: For me I don't see it that way. Most of the people I know with Mars in Cancer, for example, struggle to assert themselves in a way that is appropriate to the situation and there can be a confusion between being assertive and being aggressive. There can be a tendency to not assert themselves and then when they do they find that it is destructive both to themselves and others.

For what it's worth, Firmicus Maternus says that:
"...what is meant by the exaltation of a planet, in which it is raised up to a maximum of its own natural force, and what is its fall, when it suffers loss of that force."
...which seems to suggest, in my opinion, the same thing you observed: when a planet is in fall, the planet indicates lack of those traits signified by the planet, rather than manifesting a malefic form of those traits.

Schmidt also says something similar, although this is from a post five years ago:
"By contrast, a planet in its depression (?fall?) is subdued to the extent that its power is weakened. Depression is not a benefic/malefic issue; opposition to domicile is. Opposition to domicile is not a strength issue; depression is."
http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 9&start=30
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.

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For example, look at the chart John has recently presented in the "Unemployed with mental illness" thread:

http://www.horo.idv.tw/Astrolog32_EN/Na ... 2C+England

Here you have Sun and Saturn in conjunction in Libra. Would you say that Saturn's exaltation mitigates the difficult influence he would generally be considered to have on the Sun? Or will Saturn's strength and the Sun's weakness in Libra just make Saturn very dominant without easing his negative potential?