Dear All

Firstly, this is an amazing site Deb - congratulations. I've been 'lurking' for about a month stuffing myself silly with the info having finally come to horary. (One of the funniest things I've read in forever was Haka's lost necklace with the aid of the Croatian detective and Deb's offer to find the bed! - remember I was reading it straight thru).

I have paddled in astrology for many years, sometimes with wings on my mercurial feet and sometimes it's been akin to wading thru treacle . I'm trying to switch some of my ingrained habits to traditional now I've found you - it makes a great deal of sense. Besides, I'd like to learn to read horary.

But let me introduce myself (and the topic - the long way round) . . .
Sun Gemini (12deg) 1 deg conj Merc both in the 6th both conj DC (14 Gem) all of that sextile Pluto (14deg Leo, 9H) trine Neptune (12deg Libra, 11H) which is sextile my Sag Asc - my protective 'rainbow' as I call it, there are a couple of trines in there as well, but I'll apologise in advance for any unintentioned 'foot-in-mouth' disease with that Sag-Gem combo!! While I'll agree that I view reality thru rose-coloured glasses, I also think I resonate to the higher Neptune traits.
(also Moon 1 deg conj Saturn in 10H both Virgo 5deg conj to Leo MC - trans Uranus opp that lot last year was not fun).

I do have some clairvoyance (sat in a development circle for ~3 years many moons ago) and it, and the Spiritualist philosophy, have been part of my everyday life ever since. But not active externally, (none of my friends even know I'm into any of this!) till transitting Neptune hit a double trine to natal Neptune and Sun-Merc opp Pluto sextile Asc. That sent me back into another circle last year.

I've had several related 'messages' over the last few months, and been in that *obsessive faze* we can all relate to so well, so I asked the question that heads this post.

DATA: Sat 19 Feb 2005 10.39am 138e35 34s55 DST (Placidus)

Asc=16 Aries 36

What little I know I offer up for comment - I'm ruled by Mars exalted in 9, house of astrology. 9th ruled by Jupiter in it's term in the house of open relationships/other people, Mars applying to a sextile to Jupiter bodes well. Looking at the 2nd to the 9th - Venus rules 2nd - earned income and resources, Venus is on the 11 cusp so is read in the 11th? at the end of it's term, probably out of it - no aspect to Mars. 11th is hopes and wishes, groups, friends - but no aspect Venus to Mars, past the trine to Jupiter.

So if I look at it as a career? . . . 10th ruled by Saturn in the home, well I would be working from home, but opposition? and in it's detriment? past the square to Jupiter (people), and past qunicunx (therefore no aspect) to Venus - then my co-signifier Moon will oppose Mars and make no aspect to Venus, looks like this chart is saying no to me.

However - the POF is disposited by the Sun which would move to sextile Mars and I put in the Part of Astrology = 18 Aries 49. I should have put in the Part of Spirit too out of curiosity.

I'd be really pleased if anyone would care to comment.

Sungem

Hi Sungem,

Can you tell us a bit more about the time zone (how many hours before or after GMT) - I'm unfamiliar with it and my software doesn't recognise it either.

Also, I note you've drawn the chart in Placidus - do you want us to stick with that? Most horary astrologers use Regiomontanus.

Hello Deb

Gee, I didn't think they'd lost Australia yet!
Adelaide, South Australia (not Adelaide River) is +9.30 and we're in daylight saving so +10.30.

I'm aware that most of you use Regio, which is why I thought I'd better specify that I had used what I'm familiar with - that's the only reason I use Placidus.

Perhaps you could tell me what difference it will make if I start using Regio, apart from moving the cusps and that what , Lilly used it ? I'm happy to switch - I just don't know what changes to allow for.

Thanks

Just noticed - under this post (just above the Select a Forum box) it says -

*All times are GMT + 9.5 hours* which is a bit odd, we haven't changed our clocks back yet.

Those details came off an Astrodienst chart.

Got it. My software calls it SADT.
I don?t know that it?s better to draw up horary charts in Regiomontanus and I don?t have strong opinions about that. It?s the house system that Lilly used so it seems to have become the preferred choice amongst advocates of his methods. Some people argue that it has a particular sensitivity for horary charts, but I?m not sure why that should be so. If a student has no other preferred system I tend to recommend it on the basis that most horary astrologers use it, so it has no obvious drawbacks and the conformity of opinion allows us to study and learn from each others? charts without confusion creeping in.

Normally with a chart of this nature you would examine the strength and aspects of the 2nd house and its ruler, and Fortuna and its ruler, along with the Moon, to indicate the financial prospects. But you would also need to examine the 10th house and its ruler to judge the viability of the trade in question. There seems to be some mixed messages here but they must be connected in the forewarning of a relevant issue.

My immediate impression is that the dignity and 9th house placement of Mars shows you have a natural inclination towards matters of a divinational nature. I?m also struck by the positive symbolism around the 5th house ? POF on the cusp, both governed by the Sun which is trine the Moon and applying to the sextile of your significator from the 11th house of good fortune. The 5th house governs the things we do for pleasure rather than responsibility, so I wonder if this describes your interest in clairvoyance and astrology as best when it?s regarded as a creative and personally fulfilling interest rather than a professional activity?

The 2nd house ruler is peregrine and in my opinion weakened by its conjunction with Neptune. That doesn?t suggest any inherent skill in money making in this area; however, Venus is well placed on the 11th cusp, and gains from the trine of Jupiter (ruler of 9th), which is strong on the 7th house cusp, and Venus is also sextile the ascendant and applying to the sextile of the north node. I think that shows good hope for some lucky breaks and benefits from friends and the people you work with.

All well and good, but the area of difficulty seems to centre around a 4th house theme, so it could be showing that you need to work around obstacles that originate from your private life, inherited background or domestic environment. We have Saturn governing the career, but in opposition to its position of power, essentially debilitated, retrograde and involved in a mutually applying opposition with Mars, your significator, from the 4th house. Plus the Moon, ruler of the 4th house, immediately applying to the opposition of Mars. I can only see this as some contradiction between what you want to do and the needs of the domestic or emotional base that must support it. Actually I don?t regard this as something that denies the possibility of your eventual success, just a warning of issues that you need to explore for yourself, so that you can do some necessary readjustment. What it shows it that it won?t all be plain sailing because there are some issues that need to be raised and some allowances that have to be made. It?s more likely that the chart is showing that presently, your professional development is the weakest part of your life and you don?t have easy resources to draw upon in this area. But because there is some good signification in the other areas, plus a strong will and interest, I don?t think you need to rule this plan out entirely.

*All times are GMT + 9.5 hours* which is a bit odd, we haven't changed our clocks back yet.

I think you choose your own time zone when you register and you can amend it in your settings.

(I've just lost my whole post and have to start again!! I think I took too long)

Thank you Deb for such a full response - I think you nailed a couple of things that were puzzling me, so I'll go through the *lessons learned*

I will also switch to using Regiomontanus from now on so that I don't confuse the situation.

Normally with a chart of this nature you would examine the strength and aspects of the 2nd house and its ruler, and Fortuna and its ruler, along with the Moon, to indicate the financial prospects. But you would also need to examine the 10th house and its ruler to judge the viability of the trade in question.

Well I got the 2nd and 10th right for finance and career prospects but didn't really look at Fortuna in the light of potential income, more an opportunity which may or may not eventuate, and the 5th wasn't one of the primary houses for the question, so I sort of discounted it. (Lesson: follow through. I'm not sure that I even really took it into consideration, though I should have once Saturn brought me back to the 4th. I missed the Sun trine Moon because I thought as co-significator the Moon was past the aspect and therefore I understood the *rule* to say no aspect. I assumed the same when I compared the Moon as ruler of the 4th. I may be taking things a bit too literally here and if the initial reaction is no, I drop it and look elsewhere. I would appreciate clarification of this *past aspect* business.)

Looking through some more of the forum brings home again that it isn't necessarily a yes/no answer and that in horary as elsewhere, one should keep looking for as much contributing information as the chart will give up.

I wonder if this describes your interest in clairvoyance and astrology as best when it?s regarded as a creative and personally fulfilling interest rather than a professional activity?

. . .however I couldn't have put it more succinctly to describe the current situation.

The 2nd house ruler is peregrine and in my opinion weakened by its conjunction with Neptune.

. . . I took it as a friendly contact from Neptune's higher spiritual nature. . . you didn't? . . .in fact quite the opposite?

Which brings me to the question of Neptune and Pluto. I know they are not given rulerships, but where do they fall in looking at the aspects? Do we take notice or ignore them? For instance neither of us has mentioned Pluto in the 9th partile trine the north node in the 1st and Venus on the 11th cusp approaching a sextile to Pluto. If I were allowed to interpret that it may well indicate the renewed activity in the 9th house subjects and also makes sense of:

Venus is well placed on the 11th cusp, and gains from the trine of Jupiter (ruler of 9th), which is strong on the 7th house cusp, and Venus is also sextile the ascendant and applying to the sextile of the north node.

. . . I'm glad you like it I had my doubts

I think that shows good hope for some lucky breaks and benefits from friends and the people you work with.

. . .which could indicate the people I've met through my renewed circle involvements.

difficulty seems to centre around a 4th house theme, so it could be showing that you need to work around obstacles that originate from your private life, inherited background or domestic environment.

All too true. Like many of you, I also work fulltime and while it wasn't an idle question, I could not see my way clear to give up work and the associated income even part-time, in the forseeable future. Always assuming that I applied myself over the next couple of years to reach professional standard.

But because there is some good signification in the other areas, plus a strong will and interest, I don?t think you need to rule this plan out entirely.

. . . but then again, hope springs eternal!!!

Thank you once again Deb, for your generous response.

As it turned out, something happened late Wednesday night after I had made the original post, to make me ask a follow-up to this question but I'd like to work on it a bit more before posting.

Oh and -

I think you choose your own time zone when you register and you can amend it in your settings.

It didn't have +10.30 that's why I chose the +9.30

I missed the Sun trine Moon because I thought as co-significator the Moon was past the aspect and therefore I understood the *rule* to say no aspect. ? I would appreciate clarification of this *past aspect* business.)

I can understand why you?re a bit confused about this. When an aspect is separating its potential is dissipating. Let?s say we?re asking a relationship question and looking for an aspect between two significators to show a hopeful indication that the two will ?get together?. If the aspect is applying we can see that the relationship between them is intensifying; if it?s separating, it?s already reached its peak and the real focus of the situation lies in the past. So if the question came from someone who had recently separated from a partner and was hoping for a reunion, and the only hope for the reunion rested on that separating aspect, you can be pretty certain that the reunion won?t come about ? the moment when they had the best chance to develop the relationship has passed; if they couldn?t consolidate the relationship under the momentum of inclination then it?s not going to happen once their focus upon each other is starting to break down.

But a separating aspect is not the same as a separated aspect or one that doesn?t exist at all. There is still an influence upon each other which diminishes as time passes. Separating aspects don?t bring things to perfection by themselves, but they can add support to other indications because they show that there is still a portal of familiarity by which the planets are ?aware? of each other. To put this into a scenario, imagine you had recently made a friendly business connection with someone you met at a conference. The fact that the significators are recently separating shows you are not likely to develop the intensity of your friendship now the conference has finished and you are generally out of contact. Perhaps in a year?s time you will have forgotten all about each other, but for a short while afterwards, whilst the recent impression is still fresh in your minds, you would feel quite comfortable calling to say hello; and you might ask and take their advice on things that are of benefit to you to know without any intention of developing the closeness of the relationship between you.

At a ?general level? traditional authors recognised a sense of empowerment and benefit from friendly aspects, which hold more future potential when they are applying but still offer some lingering support even if they are separating. But this doesn?t detract from the fact that applying aspects relate to the future and separating aspects relate to the past ? so if you are looking specifically at the potential of a future event happening you want to see signs of a future application, to show that the interest will increase and not just fade away with the first sign of disruption or inconvenience.

. . I took it as a friendly contact from Neptune's higher spiritual nature. . . you didn't? . . .in fact quite the opposite?

I thought you might, which is why I said it was just my opinion. I can see the argument that within the context of your question it could be interpreted as finances connected with mediumistic or spiritual matters. Unfortunately my experience of Neptune in horary charts is that it?s quite negative because it brings a lack of reasoned clarity. Yes it can be very idealistic but it can also be very impractical and because it?s affecting your significator for financial issues you need to make sure you don?t sell reality out for a wing and a prayer.

With regards to Pluto, it arouses my interest when it is tightly connected to the principal significators. I give it about as much attention as I give to fixed stars, which sometimes is nothing much and sometimes quite significant. Yes, there could be something to be read in its connection with Venus and its trine to NN in the first, but also bear in mind that its aspect to the NN, even though it?s partile, will have a very broad influence and be operating for a lengthy period of time.

Glad this was of help. Sorry you lost your first post. As for the time zone on the forum, I think you?ll just have to live with that. I?m grateful enough just to get on the forum lately, since my internet connection seems to work only when it?s in a mood for it

Aaah Deb - you are a born teacher. The clarity of your applying/separating explanation was diamond bright.

The only book I've read on Horary is the McEvers/March one and I bought that probably in the same week I found your site. I think I took the following too much to heart:
*When you have answered the question, don't say anything else. . . Nobody cares what colour laces your Grandmother had in her shoes last Tuesday. Just answer the question, no more, no less.*
I have since printed your book from the site (thank you) and many of the articles, I've converted.

I spent some time with *moiety* in the glossary last night to I shall run it off today along with orbs and try to bed that down as well. I'm reading as fast as I can!! but of course I'd prefer that something stuck as well. . . I couldn't do it the easy way. . . oh no, I had to decide on traditional horary (natal SA/MO/MC conj again). . . still, the result you get from something is equivalent to the effort you put in - Einstein and all that - (keep repeating after me Sungem, the effort...).

With regards to Pluto, it arouses my interest when it is tightly connected to the principal significators. I give it about as much attention as I give to fixed stars, which sometimes is nothing much and sometimes quite significant.

. . .I think I understand - it's the feel of the thing, is it adding to the story? or just sitting there.

but also bear in mind that its aspect to the NN, even though it?s partile, will have a very broad influence and be operating for a lengthy period of time.

I know - and transiting Pluto is in exact opposition to my natal Venus (4deg conj to Uranus, I have high hopes that that particular natal aspect is finally going to get its act together this year). . .I'm keeping my beady eye on both fronts. As for Neptune:

I can see the argument that within the context of your question it could be interpreted as finances connected with mediumistic or spiritual matters.

I just realized how much of my money he's spending on it!!

As for the time zone on the forum, I think you?ll just have to live with that.

Oh I wasn't complaining, I'd just gone to check why I had entered +9.30. . . I know where I live even if others are not quite sure but seriously, I do understand that while SADT means South Australia Daylight Time to me, from your perspective it could just as easilty mean South Africa or South America.

cheers