Queen Victoria's Children and Their Eminence

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I am reposting this on this forum at the request of James who wanted to be able to comment on it. It is a post found in this thread (http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 8&start=75) and was used to exemplify the Hellenistic concept of Spearbearing.

Just to satisfy an earlier request, I will state I am using the standard eminence conditions found in Hellenistic and later Medieval texts. First I look to see whether the sect light is in a good place from the ASC, and also see if it is being bodyguarded by powerful planets. For this, I use Antiochus via Porphyry and Rhetorius. There are three types of spearbearing, and for general eminence I use #2 and #3. I will quote them here beginning with type #2:
We call another kind of Doryphory that of "the casting of rays." For example, if a light is angular in the ASC and posited in the domicile of another [star] [and] a star of its sect casts a ray, to the Sun in its preceding degree or to the Moon in its following degree, throwing the ray towards that one which moves according to an equal-sided line. And all the Doryphory by trine are stronger than those by square or opposition or sextile. Introduction to Tetrabibilos, Holden trans., p21
?casting a ray? is defined on page 18 of the same text, and the example given is that a star in Cancer casts a ray back to one in Aries. So in our example here, the Sun in Aries would be bodyguarded by Jupiter in Cancer, provided that Jupiter had traversed less degrees in Cancer than the Sun in Aries. This fulfils the ?...casts a ray to the Sun in its preceding degree...? criteria. I'd just like to note that I will accept the sect light and the bodyguarding planet in any sign from the ASC, but this is descriptive of the amount of eminence the person has. Same goes with out-of-sect planets.

The third kind of spearbearing is as follows:
There is also a third kind of Doryphory. If there is a star posited in the ASC or the MC by day in a diurnal nativity and by nght in a nocturnal one, the stars that precede of follow it will be its Doryphories according to the following scheme. The Sun will be Doryphoried by those stars that precede it, and the Moon by those that follow within 7 degrees. Introduction to Tetrabibilos, Holden trans., p22
Porphyry doesn't mention the distance for the Sun, but I am willing to entertain up to the trine. Just to show my idea of out-of-sect spearbearers isn't completely unattested to, Porphyry goes on to say:
The Doryphories become out-of-sect whenever the diurnal stars are Doryphories to the nocturnal ones, or the nocturnal ones to the diurnal ones; but nevertheless, if the Doryphory is made by the benefics, not even in this case will the natives be undistinguished. Introduction to Tetrabibilos, Holden trans., p22
It is worth noting that in Valens, if the native is otherwise of low eminence, we are advised to consider the position of Fortune and its lord as the native can still then make the best of an otherwise ?bad? situation.

The charts are next.
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I will delineate the children in chronological order beginning with Frederica who married the Crown Prince of Prussia, and was eventually declared Empress of Germany though her husband died only three months later. Her chart:
Image
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Fre ... of_Germany

Ok, we have the Sun in his joy in the 9th conjoined his cazimi lord, Jupiter. The Sun is bodyguarded by Mars in detriment in the 7th house. For me, this is apt for this native. The planet providing for her eminence is in the 7th sign of marriage and a sign associated with living abroad. She married a foreign prince and lived abroad where she was always known as Die Engl?nderin (the Englishwoman). The state of Mars is also telling, with him in detriment, and as ASC lord, it is a testimony of living abroad. One last thing is that a planet in detriment will evenutally ruin its significations or they will fade away; as was stated, her husband died 3 months after gaining the throne. Telling here, is the fact that Mars is in mutual reception with Venus (Venus in Mars' exaltation, Mars in Venus' sign), so she did not lose her position completely as would be expected from a malefic out-of-sect, in detriment and acting as spearbearer. Venus was there to protect her in this context.

Next the child who actually succeeded Victoria, Edward VII:
Image
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Edw ... of_England

This guy has the best chart for eminence from all the siblings, as you would expect for the one who would eventually gain the throne. He has the Sun in the 11th sign, but approaching the MC. He has Saturn and Mars, both dignified (domicile and exaltation respectively) casting a ray by sextile into the degrees preceding him while Venus bodyguards with type #3. In her own sign, she signified him having the title ?Peacemaker? while having been the longest-waiting heir apparent, he was seen as a popular socialite famous for being leisurely. When he actually became king, he reformed and modernised the military, reinstated traditional ceremonies as part of public life and was skilled in diplomacy. Notable too is that both the lord of the 4th, Mars, and the natural ruler of one's lineage, Saturn, are bodyguarding as this is what we would expect for one who was in effect given his position by the facts of his birth. Also too, is that the Moon, who is out-of-sect and in fall (I count the Moon exalted in Pisces with the Sun as this is where she would appear if we place the Sun on the Equinox) is bodyguarding the Sun as it was his mother's long reign that meant he never gained the throne until he was over 60; before that he was shunned from political power.

The third child, Alice:
Image
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ali ... ess_(1843)

This lady again married a German prince, but this was not a happy thing for her as her new family's fortunes began to diminish after marriage, and when her husband eventually inherited his position as duke, she died a year later. Her chart is fairly unremarkable from an eminence point of view. The Moon is in the 12th sign, with its lord Jupiter. It is bodyguarded by Venus in the ASC and in detriment. Again, with Venus' natural significations and her rulership of the DSC, marriage gave this woman some standing. Again though, Venus is in detriment, and her lord, Mars, is in the 9th sign, so an eventual degradation of this was to be expected.

The fourth child, Alfred:
Image
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Alf ... nce_(1844)

Alfred again has a fairly unremarkable chart. The Sun is in the 12th sign, albeit his own, with Saturn spearbearing from the opposition, but again in his own sign. Notable is that Alfred inherited his duchy from his paternal uncle; Saturn's natural significations in the 6th sign which is the 3rd from the 4th sign.

The fifth child, Helena:
Image
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hel ... of_England

Again this lady married into a foreign duchy, and again, she has Venus and the 7th house prominent as Venus is acting as bodyguard for the Sun. Unlike the others, her marriage lasted and this is due to Venus being received by a culminating Mars. However, Mars is in fall and she had a few scandals attached to her reputation. Firstly, she became ?romantically attached? to a house servant which is apt for Mars in fall, but also her eventual marriage was to a Prince of Schleswig and Holstein, a place which was being fought over by Denmark and Prussia.

The sixth child, Louise:
Image
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lou ... ess_(1848)

Again Venus is spearbearing and, again, marriage plays a role here with her marrying a duke. With Venus exalted, she was also a known artist, and even attended art school, but her royal birth meant that she could not take on the role as a professional.

The seventh child, Arthur:
Image
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Art ... of_England

This native was in the military from a young age, eventually became a field marshall and spent much of his life abroad. Here you have ASC lord, the Moon, in the 7th spearbearing for the Sun and in mutual reception with Mars. A life abroad serving in the military seems apt. According to my program here, Saturn was not visible at the natives birth, so cannot act as spearbearer.

The eighth child, Leopold:
Image
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Leo ... of_England

This native was of fairly low eminence even compared to the females of his siblings. He was granted a peerage and was Grand Master of Freemasonry before dying relatively young. His Sun is in the 9th bodyguarded only by Jupiter in fall in the 6th sign.

The ninth child, Beatrice:
Image
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bea ... of_England

This native has a chart of low eminence with the Sun receding from the angle and not having any spearbearers. She spent much of her time as her mother's unofficial secretary. She did marry a prince, but she married the son of a morganatic marriage, so he had no titles or claim to his ancestral titles. Fitting for someone without the Venus/7th sign spearbearer the other female siblings had.
http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com

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I think you have posted the sidereal chart from the sidereal forum discussion.
Chart 1# Mars is in sidereal virgo as well as tropical virgo.
It seems you have used your own detriment and exaltation system.
Yes there is a mutual reception-
Venus is in Mars' exaltation sign but Mars is in Fall sign of Venus(Mars in Tropical virgo in 7th)
7th lord Mercury is in detriment in Tropical sagittarius.

PD

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thanks for doing this konrad,

my issue is with the separate forums that seem well intended enough, but what i observe is it is sometimes a means of shutting down as opposed to opening up a conversation.. can an astrologer who is into sidereal talk with someone who practices tropical? can they both learn something? i think the answer is yes, as it may have more to do with the individual doing the astrology then the specific tools they are using. i think it is the same thing with this traditional verses modern approach.. the general forum is the obvious place for anyone who wants to allow the conversation to breathe a bit of a deeper breathe then only drinking from one source.. that said, i think i can personally learn from anyone.. probably most people have a lot that i could learn from, and i am into learning!

i haven't read holdens translation of ptolemy, so i don't know what he is saying in the book you quote firsthand. i have read about spear bearing and have always understood it to involve the same sect planets act as spear bearers for the sect light.. the way you are doing it is different. is that your own twist on this? it sounds as though it is, but since i haven't read the holden translation, maybe he said something there that i haven't read elsewhere.

i have only considered the first chart you posted of fredrica - empress of germany. i am using tropical zodiac.. i have noticed that saturn in the vicinity of the 10th house, or midheaven is often a symbol for eminence, especially in a day time birth. in the present queen elizabeth's chart, it is also conjunct the midheaven, but a night time birth, so that is different. regardless, if you consider fredrica's mom - queen victoria - she has saturn in whole sign 10th house in a day chart as well.. who fredica married - friedrich 111 - also has saturn in conjunction to the midheaven.. obviously all of these individuals had or continue to have a certain type of eminence and i think it has something to do with saturn in the vicinity of the midheaven or 10th house area..

the idea of using the houses of the part of fortune or spirit, i am familiar with as well. in fredrichs chart, the ruler of the pof in aquarius tropical is saturn which lands in the favourable house 11, along with venus and mercury which i think on balance is a positive set up. the sun/jupiter conjunction in the pof 10th is also very positive as i understand it for the idea of eminence and a more prominent life.. the part of spirit in this chart is in aries, with it's ruler mars in the 6th house, which i take to be more of a negative.

that is not from spear bearing, but i like this idea of spear bearing non the less. in fredrica's chart, the sun is conjunct the ascendant ruler - jupiter. that to me is a real positive that bodes well. a conjunction isn't considered a spear bearer as i remember this technique, but i would think bringing two of the day sect planets together like this would be a net positive and of some benefit to her. the mars/saturn square on the angles doesn't bode well from my pov and would very likely show up in any marriage partnership, especially in a womens chart. i say this as i think of the sun, mars and saturn as potential symbols for male energy in a womens chart. that mars and saturn are in square is a big negative and especially being on the angles as they are. mars is especially negative as it is the malefic out of sect here..

i don't get to this position via the use of mars as a spear bearer that is in detriment, but maybe it can work this way too! konrad, do you consider mars more of a negative via the fact it is the malefic opposite sect, or does it hinge more on it being in detriment in virgo according to your approach?

i have this habit of sometimes associating scorpio planets as having something to do with the marriage partner as well.. that fredrich has this sun/jupiter conjunction in scorpio in the 9th seems to speak directly on the type of marriage partner she would be involved with. that she had to live in a foreign country seems to be part of this 9th house conjunction as i see it too.. i suspect it wasn't an easy time for her given the end phase of the moon cycle here and moon in the waning degrees of the same sign as the sun - tropical scorpio. this is also a 9th whole sign house moon which also implies the idea of living in a foreign country, but not a happy image as moon in scorpio in a womens chart, especially in the early degrees, is more of a burden emotionally.. it is ultimately an internal set up that draws an external dynamic to the person, with them often not able to see it in a way that is necessary to be able to transcend the external circumstances they find themselves living within..

perhaps the venus on the midheaven helps offset some of the angst of mars on the descendant.. i think venus is in a wide conjunction to saturn here though and these 2 planets do not blend well with one another.. the ruler of the 7th is also conjunct saturn which might again suggest her marrying someone of eminence, but as none of these symbols on their own are stand alone symbols, they have to be taken as a whole. on balance the chart suggests difficulty in relationships, whether it be via the venus/saturn conjunction or the mars on the descendant square onto saturn in a day chart..

perhaps i can read over the other charts you have shared and comment on them as well.. hopefully some other folks will be interested in your unique approach and ask you some questions too.. thanks again konrad.

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james_m wrote:my issue is with the separate forums that seem well intended enough, but what i observe is it is sometimes a means of shutting down as opposed to opening up a conversation.. can an astrologer who is into sidereal talk with someone who practices tropical? can they both learn something? i think the answer is yes, as it may have more to do with the individual doing the astrology then the specific tools they are using. i think it is the same thing with this traditional verses modern approach.. the general forum is the obvious place for anyone who wants to allow the conversation to breathe a bit of a deeper breathe then only drinking from one source.. that said, i think i can personally learn from anyone.. probably most people have a lot that i could learn from, and i am into learning!
It is hard, we all think we are doing the right thing and want to do the right thing. This is an experiment for me, so we'll see how it goes. If it turns out how I have a feeling it might, I'll just stick to posting on my blog.
i haven't read holdens translation of ptolemy, so i don't know what he is saying in the book you quote firsthand. i have read about spear bearing and have always understood it to involve the same sect planets act as spear bearers for the sect light.. the way you are doing it is different. is that your own twist on this? it sounds as though it is, but since i haven't read the holden translation, maybe he said something there that i haven't read elsewhere.
This is Holden's translation of Porhyry's Introduction to the Tetrabibilos. Sorry if I didn't make this clear. The only thing I have added a twist on is allowing out of sect planets to bodyguard in type #2 (the first one listed) and allowing planets away from angles to bodyguard and be bodyguarded as I see this as descriptive of the type and amount of eminence the native has and, besides, this isn't even me completely innovating as Ptolemy allows the same and gives a whole hierarchy of what it means to have a non-angular luminary bodyguarded by an angular spearbearer, and so on.
i have only considered the first chart you posted of fredrica - empress of germany. i am using tropical zodiac.. i have noticed that saturn in the vicinity of the 10th house, or midheaven is often a symbol for eminence, especially in a day time birth. in the present queen elizabeth's chart, it is also conjunct the midheaven, but a night time birth, so that is different. regardless, if you consider fredrica's mom - queen victoria - she has saturn in whole sign 10th house in a day chart as well.. who fredica married - friedrich 111 - also has saturn in conjunction to the midheaven.. obviously all of these individuals had or continue to have a certain type of eminence and i think it has something to do with saturn in the vicinity of the midheaven or 10th house area..
Yeah, I have read somewhere that Saturn in a day-time chart was good for the reputation and career. Though I do wonder about Elizabeth's Saturn, but it is close to the MC and not the 10th sign.
that is not from spear bearing, but i like this idea of spear bearing non the less. in fredrica's chart, the sun is conjunct the ascendant ruler - jupiter. that to me is a real positive that bodes well. a conjunction isn't considered a spear bearer as i remember this technique, but i would think bringing two of the day sect planets together like this would be a net positive and of some benefit to her. the mars/saturn square on the angles doesn't bode well from my pov and would very likely show up in any marriage partnership, especially in a womens chart. i say this as i think of the sun, mars and saturn as potential symbols for male energy in a womens chart. that mars and saturn are in square is a big negative and especially being on the angles as they are. mars is especially negative as it is the malefic out of sect here..
Yes, the Sun conjunct Jupiter and with it cazimi would be considered most fortunate. We can see that in her life though, despite her problems, she married the best of Victoria's female children and would have had access to huge privelege through her husband's, and son's, position. I would note that, in my own view, Jupiter lords the Lot of Marriage. Cazimi with the Sun in the 9th is pretty apt for marrying a foreign emperor.
i don't get to this position via the use of mars as a spear bearer that is in detriment, but maybe it can work this way too! konrad, do you consider mars more of a negative via the fact it is the malefic opposite sect, or does it hinge more on it being in detriment in virgo according to your approach?
Quite simply, James, it is the type#3 (second one listed) in that Mars rose before the Sun in the morning.

I consider Mars harmful as the malefic opposite to the sect. I don't see dignity as negative inherently, but that it adds a quality to the planet's expression. For instance, a planet in detriment is said to diminish with time, one in fall is said to be shunned or ignored. In this case, Frederica was spared the worst by Venus' role in Mars' expression
i have this habit of sometimes associating scorpio planets as having something to do with the marriage partner as well.. that fredrich has this sun/jupiter conjunction in scorpio in the 9th seems to speak directly on the type of marriage partner she would be involved with. that she had to live in a foreign country seems to be part of this 9th house conjunction as i see it too.. i suspect it wasn't an easy time for her given the end phase of the moon cycle here and moon in the waning degrees of the same sign as the sun - tropical scorpio. this is also a 9th whole sign house moon which also implies the idea of living in a foreign country, but not a happy image as moon in scorpio in a womens chart, especially in the early degrees, is more of a burden emotionally.. it is ultimately an internal set up that draws an external dynamic to the person, with them often not able to see it in a way that is necessary to be able to transcend the external circumstances they find themselves living within..
I can't really comment on any of this, but I do wonder what made you look to Scorpio for the marriage partner. Is that experience?
perhaps the venus on the midheaven helps offset some of the angst of mars on the descendant.. i think venus is in a wide conjunction to saturn here though and these 2 planets do not blend well with one another.. the ruler of the 7th is also conjunct saturn which might again suggest her marrying someone of eminence, but as none of these symbols on their own are stand alone symbols, they have to be taken as a whole. on balance the chart suggests difficulty in relationships, whether it be via the venus/saturn conjunction or the mars on the descendant square onto saturn in a day chart..
Yeah, I agree. Problems in marriage or being abroad and it turned out to be both for her.
perhaps i can read over the other charts you have shared and comment on them as well.. hopefully some other folks will be interested in your unique approach and ask you some questions too.. thanks again konrad.
No problem, James. Take your time, I am not in any rush.
http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com

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Hi Konrad,

You certainly have an interesting way of delineating a chart! It seems to focus on the planets, using the signs for determining domiciles and exaltations (and their opposites) - for which purpose you employ the Tropical framework, however. In the samples above, I don't see that you would be applying a Sidereal zodiac at all! How is it relevant to your approach to reading a chart?

Cheers
Michael

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Michael Sternbach wrote:Hi Konrad,

You certainly have an interesting way of delineating a chart! It seems to focus on the planets, using the signs for determining domiciles and exaltations (and their opposites) - for which purpose you employ the Tropical framework, however. In the samples above, I don't see that you would be applying a Sidereal zodiac at all! How is it relevant to your approach to reading a chart?

Cheers
Michael
I use a Sidereal measurement and note the position of the Tropical cross. It is relevant for exactly the reasons I already explained: the bounds, the dodekatemoira and charts with planets in late degrees of the tropical zodiac i.e. the rulerships will be different. Example: Venus at 28 Aries in the Tropical is ruled by Mars, in my rulership it is at ~4 Aries ruled by itself, in the Sidereal ruled by Mars too. These are the charts that I see the difference.But, hey, less of me constantly explaining myself, I use a different rulership scheme. Big whoop, so what? How about you give your view on at least one of the nine charts I worked on yesterday?
http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com

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Konrad wrote:
I use a Sidereal measurement and note the position of the Tropical cross.
Actually it can be very important to note this cross in sidereal charts, but not as related to sign measurement. In India, the seasons are divided into six, and each season has a different interpretation. This is how I would combine the tropical and sidereal in charts rather than changing sign rulerships which...sigh...totally blows my mind. All I see in my brain are warning bells ringing for that concept.

The problem comes from emphasizing sign labels rather than the nature of the seasonal energy....which will be different in the southern hemisphere. Sign characteristics as such will remain the same as in the northern hemisphere, but will be modified by seasonal considerations.

As astrologers we have to give up signs in one zodiac or the other. We can't combine them. That's like mixing black and white together and expecting the color NOT to turn gray. It can't be done.

For myself I've given up tropical sign labels, but I recognize the observed traits as belonging to the underlying sidereal signs. This isn't the same as changing rulerships (and exaltations) which I believe have been set far longer than recorded Mesopotamian and Hellenistic history tells us.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

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Konrad wrote:
How about you give your view on at least one of the nine charts I worked on yesterday?
Avec plaisir, Monsieur! Voil?...

His Royal Majesty
Edward VII, King of England
Image
What would qualify this man as King?

Edward's reign is shown, for one thing, by both Jupiter and Saturn in their primary domiciles, conjunct the Sagittarius ASC. However, they are overcome by the Moon in 10th - this symbolizes his mother Queen Victoria keeping Edward from claiming the throne for an outstandingly long period of time. Royal Jupiter in frugal12th is providing a hint here as well. The quarrels between Edward and his mother are well known; the Queen despised her eldest son due to his idle lifestyle. Neptune in square to the Sun and semi-sextile to Mars would make him tend to drift through life. Uranus in opposition to the Moon is clearly one of the factors speaking for the conflicts with the mother.

But the Moon also represents the populace here; they were the content of Edward's professional life, long before he became King.This is emphasized by her dwelling in Virgo, along with the Nonagesimal: The ruler as the first servant of the community ? Edward VII does seem to exemplify this. Venus in Libra, supported by Jupiter's sextile, partially accounts for his great popularity asthis combination excels at representative tasks. Edward's talent as a charming diplomat (which he shared with his father - 10th) also stands in context with this.

In contrast, the MC in Scorpio shows this man's interest in wielding power. Naturally, the Sun in Scorpio is in line with this. Both factors are providing power to effectuate social reform since they're in the 11th house. The Sun receives a sextile from his co-ruler Mars which is in his exaltation in 1st. This Mars is at the receiving end of a T square involving Pluto. Edward surely was a mixed bag of traits.

The emphasis on 11th is reflected, on another level, by Uranus' very noteable influence (the mundane ruler of the 11th house). He stands close to the 4th house cusp and casts his rays at the ASC and all the planets in the chart except Mercury! Edward VII is well reputed for the reforms he introduced. I doubt this could be explained very satisfactorily in a traditional astrological setting without considering Uranus! However, Edward's reforms typically involved reintroducing older traditions. - Consider that Uranus is retrograde at the IC in the nostalgic sign Pisces.

The other outers play significant roles here, too.

We see Uranus and Neptune in mutual reception; moreover, Neptune is in his exaltation in Aquarius and ruling 4th. He forms an exact conjunction with the Lot of Spirit as well as several aspects with the planets. I do see Edward VII as a visionary. His dreams included reviving old traditions (Neptune in 2nd).

Pluto - Lord of the Sun, MC and Lot of Fortune - is in his secondary domicile Aries at the IC. His influence will be seen pronunced in this personality. In 4th, he stands for the power that Edward inherited from his ancestry ? the retrograde motion underlines how much Edward was drawing on tradition. Moreover, Pluto and Mars linked with Uranus must have gone a long way inspiring him to modernise the military.

Pluto stands in a very precise opposition with Venus in 10th. Edward had lots of liaisons before as well as during his married life (Uranus inconjunct Venus). He tried to keep them concealed (Pluto in 4th) but rumours did leek out and damaged his public reputation (much to his mother's dismay ? 4th house).

Conceivably, beyond personal concealments, Pluto in 4th could also stand for some potent family secrets watched over by Edward VII? Opposite to Pluto, confidence inspiring Venus in Libra and 10th might have helped him keep these matters hidden from the public's eye. (But will we ever know?)

Konrad, by the way, best wishes for your recovery!

Michael

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konrad,

yes - the focus i gave on scorpio in connection to marriage partners is my impression based on my observations. i could be wrong, but i thought i would share this when considering the sun/jupiter conjunction in the empress of germany's chart.. maybe i was thinking how the sun can represent the male figure in a womens life - i think that is a modern concept, but not sure.. jupiter is also thought of as a male planet. the 2 together in the 9th sounds like a connection to the male, especially in the sign scorpio. i think i have rolled it all into a general observation on the symbolism representing her husband..

it is interesting the idea of eminence, apart from fame. i like what you have tried to examine here with the charts of members of the royal family. they are all going to lead different lives, but is their some symbolism of eminence that ties them all together that we have been encouraged to get via the concept of spear bearing, or some other methods like valens use of the houses from the part of fortune?

i had a look at princess alice's chart.. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ali ... %281843%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_A ... ed_Kingdom

she also has saturn high up in the chart in the same sign as the midheaven, a nocturnal chart different from her mom and sisters chart (that i looked at earlier) both of which were diurnal charts..

the ruler of the part of fortune is in the 11th house from the pof.. i would be considered strongly benefic given it venus exalted in pisces, but her life doesn't seem to convey this, as it was lived or in how i understand it. venus in this chart is quite interesting astrologically as it seems to play an important role in her life. it rules over the sun/mercury conjunction.. if you look at a 9th harmonic off this chart, or the navamsha chart, it forms a close conjunction with sun/mercury and midheaven as well.

neptune = the ascendant/midheaven midpoint which i believe re-emphasizes a pisces theme of self sacrifice and service to others, which i believe is already emphasized with the placement of moon and venus in the 12th house. that she seems to have led a life of service to others, helping nurse others thru sickness until she succumbed to her own seems to fit.. all in all she seems to have led a difficult life with a fair amount of sadness.

another observation that i think is quite relevant to her chart is moon at the sun/saturn midpoint. i think this implies the possibility of ongoing issues with depression and/or sadness..

i suppose a person can have signs of eminence in the chart and still be quite challenged by the circumstances of life.. i get the impression her life was challenging in a way that she didn't have a lot of say or control over much of it.. perhaps this was more the fate of women generally at the time she was living it..

i note the malefics on the angles in the solar return for her chart to the year of her death 1878... she died on the 17th anniversary of her dad's death as well. her dad has saturn at 29 degrees pisces, fairly close to solar return saturn at 27 pisces for 1878 sr.. coincidences, coincidences.. i use the birth location for solar returns as i find them valuable guides..