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Functional benefics and malefics based on ascendant/lagna

 
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Larxene



Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 312

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:38 am    Post subject: Functional benefics and malefics based on ascendant/lagna Reply with quote

I was exploring Vedic astrology the other day, and I came across an interesting idea. According to the astrologer E. K. Dhilip Kumar, there are different functional benefics and malefics depending on the sign of the Ascendant. He videos can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBzWJX6hRXEGzWrCUWuboIA

The basic idea is that the planets that rule over the good houses become benefics, while the planets ruling over bad houses become malefics. So for instance, in a chart with Taurus ascendant, Saturn rules over the 10th and the 9th, so it becomes a generally benefic planet for the native, while Jupiter is generally malefic because it rules over the 8th and the 11th (11th is considered a bad house for some reason).

My question is, is this technique mainstream in Vedic astrology?
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:08 am    Post subject: Re: Functional benefics and malefics based on ascendant/lagn Reply with quote

Larxene wrote:
I was exploring Vedic astrology the other day, and I came across an interesting idea. According to the astrologer E. K. Dhilip Kumar, there are different functional benefics and malefics depending on the sign of the Ascendant. He videos can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBzWJX6hRXEGzWrCUWuboIA

The basic idea is that the planets that rule over the good houses become benefics, while the planets ruling over bad houses become malefics. So for instance, in a chart with Taurus ascendant, Saturn rules over the 10th and the 9th, so it becomes a generally benefic planet for the native, while Jupiter is generally malefic because it rules over the 8th and the 11th (11th is considered a bad house for some reason).

My question is, is this technique mainstream in Vedic astrology?


Yes it is but mainly for profections system eg: Vimshottari(120yr)period system.
The concept of natural benefics does not change.

For example:
The concept is like this:
A planet that rules a trine house is beneficial to the native during its period and sub period.
A planet that owns the quadrant is strong.

Any combination of a planet ruling a trine and a quadrant gives power and authority(Raja Yoga) during their period/sub-period.

If a planet owns both a quadrant and a trine it is a power giving planet on its own(in its period/sub period)

For transits: the natural benefic scheme takes over.
So for,
Sidereal Taurus ascendant:
The period and sub period of Saturn will be good as it rules the 9th and the 10th house
Jupiter is a natural benefic and when it trines a planet in transit it will geve generally good results but sturn transiting on natal moon is still not good and so on.

That is how I understand it.

PD
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Becca



Joined: 17 Mar 2014
Posts: 57

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Larxene, pankajdubey

I've always found the format of these charts confusing to make sense of. I see that the angular houses are still emphasized by being in the center, but how does an aspect look? pankajdubey, when you say,
Quote:
A planet that rules a trine house is beneficial to the native during its period and sub period
, how can we look at a chart and tell that two planets are in aspect? are planets in trine houses only able to aspect planets in trine houses? Confused...which houses are the trine houses?

And I'm guessing that Subdivision charts are used in cohesion with the natal chart for Dasa Periods. I generally think of the Subdivision charts as an equivalent to Harmonic charts; are Yogas an equivalent to aspect patterns? the idea that Larxene mentioned,
Quote:
The basic idea is that the planets that rule over the good houses become benefics, while the planets ruling over bad houses become malefics
, just an equivalent to Planetary Joys?

Just trying to make sense of some of this.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Location: Delhi

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Becca,

for most part, in Indian astrology(Jyotisha)-
sign=house
So if Libra is the rising sign:
5th and 9th houses will be occupied by Aquarius and Gemini respectively with Saturn and Mars as their rulers.

1,4,7,10 house are Kendras(angular houses) and Libra,Capricorn,Aries and Cancer occupy them .

Now, for Libra lagna(ascendant)- any combination of an angular or trine lord is a power giving combination(Raja yoga).
so, Venus-Saturn, Venus-Merc, Moon-Merc,Moon-sat periods etc are power giving if they have an association in the natal chart.

Subdivisions are important but I do not go beyond navamsha(D9) and that too to check for secondary strength in a weak planet or vice versa.

The textbooks by definition have to cover everything so they do not tell you the relative importance of each statement in that book.So, it gets very confusing.

PD
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Becca



Joined: 17 Mar 2014
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for a response, pankajdubey.

I've always had a sporadic interest in this branch of astrology. I like to learn a bit about it and have what I learn accumulate, only to come back to it all later. Some of it usually sticks, while some of it doesn't.

pankajdubey wrote:
for most part, in Indian astrology(Jyotisha)-
sign=house
So if Libra is the rising sign:
5th and 9th houses will be occupied by Aquarius and Gemini respectively with Saturn and Mars as their rulers.

Mars as the ruler of Gemini? how so? wouldn't it be Mercury?

Quote:
Now, for Libra lagna(ascendant)- any combination of an angular or trine lord is a power giving combination(Raja yoga).
so, Venus-Saturn, Venus-Merc, Moon-Merc,Moon-sat periods etc are power giving if they have an association in the natal chart.

I've read that there are several types of Yogas. I still don't understand how to indentify any of them but, the Raja Yoga, is it one of the most common? or is it just the easiest to identify?

Quote:
Subdivisions are important but I do not go beyond navamsha(D9) and that too to check for secondary strength in a weak planet or vice versa.

I've read that they are important and I find these to be the most interesting but it's probably best advised to familiarize ourselves with the format and other aspects of a natal before delving into looking at other types of charts, I guess.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Becca,
Yes that was a typo.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Becca wrote:
Quote:
I've always found the format of these charts confusing to make sense of. I see that the angular houses are still emphasized by being in the center, but how does an aspect look?

Becca, if you are referring to the square charts used by Indian astrologers, I agree that for many of us in the west these charts are unreadable. More importantly, there is no need to draw these charts as squares rather than the traditional circle used in the west. Now in some Indian texts I'm actually seeing circular charts, and some Jyotish astrological programs provide the circular option.

It seems that each of us has a brain wired for squares or circles. If you're a circle person (said to be a female design), then simply use the circular format for all charts. I have never used square charts for Jyotish...can't read them! I can't see the flow of aspects and energy in square charts. I want to see the horizon line in a chart, and easily see which planets are above in the sky or below the horizon. For me the square is anti-intuitive.

Therese
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
I have never used square charts for Jyotish...can't read them! I can't see the flow of aspects and energy in square charts. I want to see the horizon line in a chart, and easily see which planets are above in the sky or below the horizon. For me the square is anti-intuitive.

I can't resist quoting Thomas Oxley, who was of your mind:

Quote:
There is also another very great impediment to the perfect attainment of this science, which is the absurd figure, or diagram almost always used, and very improperly called a figure of the heavens; which figure consists of a square and a number of half squares, or triangles cornered and dovetailed into one another like a mosaic pavement. In the name of reason I would ask in what respect can such a tessalated [sic] pavement be compared to a figure of the heavens! The orbits of the planets are nearly circular, the planets themselves are globular, and the lines distinguished by the names of ecliptic and equator, etc., are perfect circles. How excessively absurd then must it be, to represent the figure of the heavens under the similitude of a broken pavement, or of a square of board made up of a number of other squares, cut through their diagonals and clumsily glued together again. Surely it could never have been a man of science who invented so absurd a figure, but some sordid miser, with the view of saving half an inch of paper.

Very Happy (See http://www.martingansten.com/pdf/WorsdaleOxley2011.pdf.)
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonderful!! Thanks, Martin. Very Happy
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin Gansten wrote:
Therese Hamilton wrote:
I have never used square charts for Jyotish...can't read them! I can't see the flow of aspects and energy in square charts. I want to see the horizon line in a chart, and easily see which planets are above in the sky or below the horizon. For me the square is anti-intuitive.

I can't resist quoting Thomas Oxley, who was of your mind:

Quote:
There is also another very great impediment to the perfect attainment of this science, which is the absurd figure, or diagram almost always used, and very improperly called a figure of the heavens; which figure consists of a square and a number of half squares, or triangles cornered and dovetailed into one another like a mosaic pavement. In the name of reason I would ask in what respect can such a tessalated [sic] pavement be compared to a figure of the heavens! The orbits of the planets are nearly circular, the planets themselves are globular, and the lines distinguished by the names of ecliptic and equator, etc., are perfect circles. How excessively absurd then must it be, to represent the figure of the heavens under the similitude of a broken pavement, or of a square of board made up of a number of other squares, cut through their diagonals and clumsily glued together again. Surely it could never have been a man of science who invented so absurd a figure, but some sordid miser, with the view of saving half an inch of paper.

Very Happy (See http://www.martingansten.com/pdf/WorsdaleOxley2011.pdf.)


I agree, it could have been a palm leave saving excercise Smile

But, If you get used to it, then, all 4 kendras are clustered together in the centre- try colour it yellow and the trines green- the lagna then is orange(it has both) and all things left not coloured are a bit tricky- between 5th and 7th is the 6th, between 7th and 9th is the 8th.

PD
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Larxene



Joined: 22 Sep 2012
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Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Becca, I didn't reply because I did not receive an email notification for this thread. It happens sporadically.

Anyway, I do not mind square charts, but the kendras must be the triangular ones (with birth details in the middle) rather than the diamond one. The weakness of that chart is the lack of crucial information, as Therese noted. For me it also does not contain the bound rulers, which is something I always use with Morinus. The only pluses are that it saves space and can be drawn more easily by hand, as you do not need a compass and it is faster to draw.



Becca,

There are many ways to find Raja Yogas. It's actually one of the more complicated parts of Jyotish. I only remember a few:

1) Ascendant ruler + 5th/9th house ruler
2) Midheaven ruler + 9th house ruler
3) Ruler of two pivotal houses
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larxene wrote:
Quote:
The only pluses [of square charts are that it saves space and can be drawn more easily by hand, as you do not need a compass and it is faster to draw.

Today most of us depend on software to produce our circular charts, but from the days before computer programs I have circular plastic templates with the house lines cut out so that it's quick and easy to draw circular diagrams. I wonder if this simple type of template is available today? Of course if we need circular diagrams without the planets many software programs will easily produce these today. It must be difficult for younger people to realize that we used to have to hand draw and hand calculate all of our astrological charts.
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