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Transpluto
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2686
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fleur and michael,

thank you both.. and sorry for the delay in not responding.. my life got busier the past while and hasn't slowed down much especially the past few months.. i wish it would but i suppose a combo of astrological factors is contributing to this!

fleur, i think it might have been subninum on the other thread that said it best - astrology is an art, as opposed to hard science - or something like that.. what others use to articulate their perceptions on charts and life will be subjective and personal as i see it.. however, i can't wrap my head around such a huge emphasis on a hypothetical body, so we will have to agree to seeing astrology from a different angle here with regard to the use of isis/transpluto..

michael.. thanks man.. that was what i was curious about and you helped clarify this for me.. i too have looked into the uranian hypothetical planets and saw some relevance.. i still have alfred wittes book on planetary pictures and although i am not a uranian astrologer by a long shot, i was interested in it enough to study it to a degree.. now, i am mostly stuck on the main bodies that both traditional and modern astrology often rely on and see the merits on the lesser number of bodies, while continuing to be receptive to the significance of the outer planets, even eris, chiron and maybe some others.. i haven't studied ceres - i think fleur mentions this large asteroid - but then i haven't really studied eris either, even though it is conjunct my sun according to the software.. i remain receptive and accepting of a fair degree of ambiguity..

i really latched onto the relevance of the moons nodal axis in the past few years.. i can't believe how i missed the importance of this axis which at this point, i feel is very important to any chart analysis... so, to each there own i suppose, when it comes to what points, planets, bodies, hypotheticals and etc. etc. - they opt to work with.. michael - hope you are doing good and i miss our conversations from the past..
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael you said :-

" Now many esotericists have stated that there are numerous bodies orbiting in the solar system that have their existence entirely on a subtle plane, yet they do have an influence in astrological terms. Well, how could we exclude this possibility? As astrologers, we are frequently factoring in things that aren't there in a physical sense. "

Yes I would totally agree with that. I haven't studied the Uranian "hypothetical" planets but I think I might now, after your experience.

My main experience with another "hypothetical" planet which certainly can't exist in our material dimension is with Vulcan. So often I see this in mundane astrology with earthquakes etc. In my own chart it is situated between a close Sun/Mars conj. Mars is Lord 6 and Vulcan has symbolised a veritable earthquake in my health (or lack of it !).

Yes James the nodal axis is worthy of much neglected study with me also.

I have also in recent weeks discovered the importance of planetary nodes. I hope to be able to post about that. Highly revealing and illuminating.

Very interesting thread. Isistranspluto has had a significant placement over the two World Wars moving through late Cancer which Rhetorius saw as the "gateway of the gods" and early Leo moving to the Beehive cluster (Praesepe). This area of the zodiac symbolises a kind of portal to another dimension. Many millions (more than at any other time in history) passed through this portal during the World Wars and this is what TP symbolised.
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Michael Sternbach



Joined: 01 Mar 2014
Posts: 446
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
fleur and michael,

thank you both.. and sorry for the delay in not responding.. my life got busier the past while and hasn't slowed down much especially the past few months.. i wish it would but i suppose a combo of astrological factors is contributing to this!

fleur, i think it might have been subninum on the other thread that said it best - astrology is an art, as opposed to hard science - or something like that.. what others use to articulate their perceptions on charts and life will be subjective and personal as i see it.. however, i can't wrap my head around such a huge emphasis on a hypothetical body, so we will have to agree to seeing astrology from a different angle here with regard to the use of isis/transpluto..

michael.. thanks man.. that was what i was curious about and you helped clarify this for me.. i too have looked into the uranian hypothetical planets and saw some relevance.. i still have alfred wittes book on planetary pictures and although i am not a uranian astrologer by a long shot, i was interested in it enough to study it to a degree.. now, i am mostly stuck on the main bodies that both traditional and modern astrology often rely on and see the merits on the lesser number of bodies, while continuing to be receptive to the significance of the outer planets, even eris, chiron and maybe some others.. i haven't studied ceres - i think fleur mentions this large asteroid - but then i haven't really studied eris either, even though it is conjunct my sun according to the software.. i remain receptive and accepting of a fair degree of ambiguity..

i really latched onto the relevance of the moons nodal axis in the past few years.. i can't believe how i missed the importance of this axis which at this point, i feel is very important to any chart analysis... so, to each there own i suppose, when it comes to what points, planets, bodies, hypotheticals and etc. etc. - they opt to work with.. michael - hope you are doing good and i miss our conversations from the past..


James, I am glad that the presentation of my views helped you clarify some of yours. And I am most certainly available for further conversations, both on and off the board! Smile
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Michael Sternbach



Joined: 01 Mar 2014
Posts: 446
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicki wrote:
Michael you said :-

" Now many esotericists have stated that there are numerous bodies orbiting in the solar system that have their existence entirely on a subtle plane, yet they do have an influence in astrological terms. Well, how could we exclude this possibility? As astrologers, we are frequently factoring in things that aren't there in a physical sense. "

Yes I would totally agree with that. I haven't studied the Uranian "hypothetical" planets but I think I might now, after your experience.


In that case, don't forget to share what you find! Smile

Quote:
My main experience with another "hypothetical" planet which certainly can't exist in our material dimension is with Vulcan. So often I see this in mundane astrology with earthquakes etc. In my own chart it is situated between a close Sun/Mars conj. Mars is Lord 6 and Vulcan has symbolised a veritable earthquake in my health (or lack of it !).


What ephemeris for Vulcan are you (or is your software) using?

I always found Vulcan fascinating. And while his existence as a planet can indeed be ruled out, it is noteworthy that some astronomers continue to search for one or more asteroids in the Sun's vicinity.

Quote:
Yes James the nodal axis is worthy of much neglected study with me also.

I have also in recent weeks discovered the importance of planetary nodes. I hope to be able to post about that. Highly revealing and illuminating.


Based on my own limited experience with planetary nodes, I fully agree. Again, I am looking forward to reading your insights.

Quote:
Very interesting thread. Isistranspluto has had a significant placement over the two World Wars moving through late Cancer which Rhetorius saw as the "gateway of the gods" and early Leo moving to the Beehive cluster (Praesepe). This area of the zodiac symbolises a kind of portal to another dimension. Many millions (more than at any other time in history) passed through this portal during the World Wars and this is what TP symbolised.


However, in that view, Cancer provided the gateway of incarnation, whence souls descended to Earth, whereas the gateway of excarnation was opposite to it in Capricorn.
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https://michaelsternbach.wordpress.com/
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Michael for your reply.

I looked at the Transneptunian "planets" and found Hades to be exactly conjoining my natal Mercury (Lord 8 in the 6th!). That gave me a bit of a jolt because it seemed very apposite. However I'm not sure I'll make a habit of using these. The chart can get too cluttered.

I use Janus software and that has Isistranspluto and Vulcan as well as the Trans neptunians.

I take your point about Cancer but I tend to regard the Cancer/Capricorn, 4/10 axis as a general pathway to another dimension. I'm not too fussed about ins and outs !
Just yesterday I found the 29th degree of Cancer described as the "Wedding of the Gods" in the Liber Hermetis which ties in with Rhetorius and his 29 Capricorn "Gateway to the Gods".

I hope to post about planetary nodes in due course. That wretched Mercury of mine does restrict me !
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