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Flatangle - Traditional Astrology made simple
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 292
Location: Portugal

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject: Flatangle - Traditional Astrology made simple Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm very excited to let you know about my new independent software project - Flatangle. Flatangle's purpose is to provide great software for traditional astrologers using a clean, well designed interface and the best possible user experience. My motto is Traditional Astrology made simple.

Over the last years, I've been developing a traditional astrology software called skyPlux. However, skyplux lost its traction (and I've lost the domain name), so I took the chance to try a different approach. Flatangle is the result.

But more than a software project, Flatangle is also an experiment. From starting a sustainable business, and to see how astrology can help a project grow, there's nothing like doing some things yourself. So I intend to publish regularly, from technical subjects and branding issues to astrology itself. Flatangle is also about transparency.


Flatangle's first product is called Elements.



Elements is a Traditional Astrology application that allows for professionals and students to focus on astrology itself. It provides high quality graphics in a minimalist and distraction-free interface and works on all devices and operating systems.

Elements is currently being beta-tested.


My website is at http://flatangle.com/, and I will be posting as things get done.


Hope you like the website!
Joćo Ventura


Last edited by jventura on Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 292
Location: Portugal

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again,

just a small update!

At Flat Angle, things are slowly taking shape and I have just uploaded my new blog to its server. As I said previously, it is my intention to publish regularly about a variety of topics, ranging from technical and business issues to topics related to astrology itself. Flat Angle is also about transparency and knowledge sharing.

You can find Flat Angle's blog at http://blog.flatangle.com and the website at http://www.flatangle.com/.

I have also published my first blog post, where I would like to present some of the reasons that led to the creation of this new software project. You can find it at http://blog.flatangle.com/2014/hello-world/.

I hope you can find the time to read it, and I welcome any suggestions or questions about the project, even spelling corrections! Smile You can use the comment section below the blog post (hope it works), this skyscript thread, or if you want, you can send me an email to flatangleweb@gmail.com.


Joćo Ventura

(Just a small photo for you to see how Elements is starting to look on a tablet device)
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 292
Location: Portugal

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again,

I've just published a new article at my blog, which you can find at http://blog.flatangle.com/2014/why-differentiate/!

I've called it Why am I differentiating Flat Angle, and it basically describes my current marketing strategy for Flat Angle after failing with my previous project. It is not really an article related to astrology, but my personal description of how am I using some marketing strategies to try to build my own independent software business (astrology software in my case). From the article:

Flat Angle Blog wrote:

There are lots of astrology software vendors out there, and without a clear differentiating factor Flat Angle is just another one, like a small fish on a big pond. Differentiation is essentially a way for me to commit to a strategy and stick to it as long as it makes sense, rather than having no strategy at all.


I believe this article will appeal mostly to those people who have or are trying to start their own personal projects.

I would go as far as saying that even astrology enthusiasts and professional astrologers who are trying to build something for them, could also be interested in this article's content. There are many links in the text that they can follow if they wish to search deeper.

I hope you can get the time to read it and I welcome any questions and suggestions, either through the comments on the blog, email, or skyscript forum.


Joćo Ventura
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Deb
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the look of your software very much.
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Wade



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 84
Location: London, UK

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jventura wrote:
I hope you can find the time to read it, and I welcome any suggestions or questions about the project, even spelling corrections! Smile You can use the comment section below the blog post (hope it works), this skyscript thread, or if you want, you can send me an email to flatangleweb@gmail.com.


oi Joćo, tudo bem? o seu programa é belezinha!

as a community we are so indebted to software developers, and your program looks great. I might email you to see how the project is coming along and developments you're looking to incorporate, if you're interested. I have a few items on my "wishlist" that are near impossible to come by.
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 292
Location: Portugal

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
I like the look of your software very much.


Hello Deb,

thanks for the compliment about the software! Smile

I am extremely committed to simple and well designed interfaces, both on the software as well as on my website and blog. Nowadays I prefer these type of minimalist approaches, based on simple imagery, good typography and with a strong focus on the content. They look more modern and professional..

But there are some essential features that I still have to look for the best way to include them in the software, so there is still much to do..



wca wrote:
oi Joćo, tudo bem? o seu programa é belezinha!

as a community we are so indebted to software developers, and your program looks great. I might email you to see how the project is coming along and developments you're looking to incorporate, if you're interested. I have a few items on my "wishlist" that are near impossible to come by.


Hello Wade,

thanks for the portuguese compliment as well! Smile

I would be happy to hear your suggestions. In fact, one of my "goals" (http://blog.flatangle.com/2014/why-differentiate/) is that I want my software to solve astrologers' real problems. Therefore I am quite open to suggestions, even more if they align with the vision I have for the software (mainly interface simplicity and good design, but also cross-platform ability, etc..).

I still have to implement those 20% features that will solve the problems of 80% of the users (Pareto Law applied to software), but you can send me an email with your suggestions at any time.

In fact, you wrote the following in the Mac compatible astrology software thread that aligns quite well with my idea of the software:

wca in 'Mac compatible astrology software thread' wrote:
I prefer to just look at a chart without extraneous detail so this works just fine for me


I took your words very seriously, and that is why when someone currently creates a new chart, he gets a clean good-looking chart, as can be see in the pictures. It's the current behavior, but I still have to polish some rough edges.

The chart can then be exported (there is a small download icon on the top-right) to a high definition PNG (such as 2000x2000 pixels) or to a vector format such as SVG/PDF, where you could even print it on a wall without losing quality.

I believe that this can be interesting for people who have blogs, web pages, or publish chart images anywhere (web or paper). For instance Wade, the charts on your blog (http://wadecaves.com/) look kind of blurry in my retina Macbook, and in most of my high resolution devices. With an independent-resolution image format such as PDF/SVG, the charts should always look fine. The disadvantage is that many people are still using browsers that do not support vector images, but they are less every day.



Thank you both,
Joćo Ventura
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Larxene



Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 312

Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Joao,

One of the things I like about Morinus is the simple colour scheme and design. I think your software is simple enough, although I actually prefer not colouring the zodiac signs. Instead I prefer to assign customisable colours to the planets. I think it's fine either way, I just like to be able to identify planets more easily, whereas signs are less important because their images are bigger and easier to distinguish. Perhaps the solution would be to allow users to modify the colours of the signs and planets.

One of the major problems with Morinus is the fact that it uses bitmap/Paint generated images. It looks pixelated, and when you view the chart using a Netbook, the image becomes even more pixelated.

When you add Lots to the chart, the planets become almost impossible to see using a Netbook. Smile Which brings me to another point, how do you plan to implement additional Lots into the chart? Are they going to be inside the chart, or outside the wheel?

It's good that Morinus resizes the chart. Astrodienst's chart is too big; I have to scroll up and down just to view some of the zodiac signs lol. From the looks of it, your software's chart looks fine (not pixelated at least), does it handle resizing (i.e. different screen resolutions) well?

Lastly, when the user wants to view tables (like application/separation of planets, primary directions, etc) and additional charts, how would it look like? Do I have to alternate between several windows? If I can view everything at the same time, does the chart(s) look too small? And so on...

By the way, why does the design look so familiar? Hmm...I feel like I've seen it before...



Hope this helped.

Larxene Xenohart
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Larxene,

interesting questions as always! Smile I will try to answer them in separate..

Larxene wrote:
Instead I prefer to assign customisable colours to the planets. I think it's fine either way, I just like to be able to identify planets more easily, whereas signs are less important because their images are bigger and easier to distinguish. Perhaps the solution would be to allow users to modify the colours of the signs and planets.


I still haven't figured an effective solution for customization. My current solution is that people may be able to choose from a set of templates (or themes), like in the following picture:

(Comic Style on the left and Old Style on the right - Temporary names)


I would like to come up with enough styles to fit the needs of most users. But if it turns out that a majority of people will really need even more customization (personal styles for publishing on blogs, books, or to share with clients, etc.) I will try to find a better solution. Good designs and implementations take time to do well, so I must take an iterative approach with this one.

Larxene wrote:
how do you plan to implement additional Lots into the chart? Are they going to be inside the chart, or outside the wheel?


Lots as Arabic Parts? Mostly on a table (except Pars Fortuna). My reasoning for this is that every symbol on the chart should be "usable" at least more than once (not a hard rule, though). For instance, you may refer to a planet lots of times: to see where it is, its movement, all aspects it makes, all aspects other planets make to it, etc. For Arabic Parts, most of the times, you only need to check for conjunctions. And most Arabic Parts don't have symbols, therefore it is not easy to represent them in a chart..

I am not sure that was your question..

Larxene wrote:

From the looks of it, your software's chart looks fine (not pixelated at least), does it handle resizing (i.e. different screen resolutions) well?


Yes it does! It took me almost two months to come up with a good enough solution, but now if you have a 30" LCD, you will see a clear chart without any blurriness. Check this pdf here and try to zoom it. It should scale without being blurry. It should even scale to netbook resolutions as good as well..

You could also export it to a PNG if you would like to publish a bitmap file in your blog, for instance.

Larxene wrote:

Lastly, when the user wants to view tables (like application/separation of planets, primary directions, etc) and additional charts, how would it look like? Do I have to alternate between several windows? If I can view everything at the same time, does the chart(s) look too small? And so on...


This is where all the design decisions will turn this software into a good or a bad one. For instance, on Morinus you have windows covering other windows. I don't like that interface at all. On skyPlux I had tabs, which was much cleaner.

On this project, I'm still working on it, but I'm thinking on something like a tab for each chart. For instance, if you are working with charts of two persons, you will have two tabs. Or if you are working with the natal chart of a person and his Solar Return, you will have again two tabs, one for the natal chart, the other for the solar return.

And the tabular data would be bellow each chart, like a document. So, instead of having to click through a lot of menus, you would just scroll down to the details you want.

I haven't settled on anything yet, and scrolling down is a thing that people are quite acquainted to nowadays, but there are compromises for this. It is still much on the open..


Larxene wrote:

By the way, why does the design look so familiar? Hmm...I feel like I've seen it before...


The "comic style" chart? Don't tell anyone, but I like kairon.cc charts very much. Smile The left bar interface is just what mobile and webapp interfaces are heading to, so I got inspired on those.


Larxene wrote:

Hope this helped.


Lots of food for thought, thanks Larxene! Smile


Joćo Ventura
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Larxene



Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 312

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Joao (is it pronounced Jo-ah, with a silent o?),

jventura wrote:
Hello Larxene,

interesting questions as always! Smile I will try to answer them in separate..

I still haven't figured an effective solution for customization. My current solution is that people may be able to choose from a set of templates (or themes), like in the following picture:


Yes, templates are fine Thumbs up. Maybe you can start with 5 templates pre-installed. Then in the future you can create new templates (based on customer demand and preferences), and sell them in packages of 5, at a reasonable price. The customer can hand-pick which 5 templates they want, and they can also request new templates if the existing ones don't suit their taste. Wordpress copycat Very Happy

The advantage of this is that, if people are actually fine with the pre-installed templates, you wouldn't have wasted time trying to figure out the customisation code. You only need to create new templates when there is a real demand for it. Cool


jventura wrote:
Lots as Arabic Parts? Mostly on a table (except Pars Fortuna). My reasoning for this is that every symbol on the chart should be "usable" at least more than once (not a hard rule, though). For instance, you may refer to a planet lots of times: to see where it is, its movement, all aspects it makes, all aspects other planets make to it, etc. For Arabic Parts, most of the times, you only need to check for conjunctions. And most Arabic Parts don't have symbols, therefore it is not easy to represent them in a chart..

I am not sure that was your question..


You'd be surprised. Dorotheus, for example, talks about aspects to a Lot as being indicative of matters relating to the Lot:

Quote:
"If you find Jupiter and Venus aspecting the lot of brothers, then it is a good indication in the matter of brothers. If they aspect from quartile, then according to that they are beneficial. If you find Mars and Saturn aspecting the lot from quartile or opposition, then this will injure the brothers and diminish them, and sometimes their death will be seen. But if the malefics aspect from trine, then there is no great calamity for them."

- Carmen Astrologicum, Book 1, Chapter 19


...But that depends on your target market, and how THEY use the Lots. Btw, read my PM on the definition of "traditional".

Yes, the symbols are not standardised...but you can make your own Very Happy Be the standard. Or ask around for expert opinion on what symbols should be used for certain Lots. For example, Chris Brennan suggested using the greek letter phi as a symbol for Spirit.

For the less prominent Lots, maybe you can just allow the user to name it, like Morinus does. You may have to keep those Lots outside the wheel, like Morinus, to prevent chart clogging. The only problem with this is it shrinks the chart further, if your chart automatically resizes to fit the Lots outside the wheel into the screen. I can provide screenshots if you don't understand what I mean.


jventura wrote:
Yes it does! It took me almost two months to come up with a good enough solution, but now if you have a 30" LCD, you will see a clear chart without any blurriness. Check this pdf here and try to zoom it. It should scale without being blurry. It should even scale to netbook resolutions as good as well..

You could also export it to a PNG if you would like to publish a bitmap file in your blog, for instance.


I checked it, and it fits my screen at 60% of the original size. Yeah, the degrees and minutes are big enough to read. That's good.


jventura wrote:
This is where all the design decisions will turn this software into a good or a bad one. For instance, on Morinus you have windows covering other windows. I don't like that interface at all. On skyPlux I had tabs, which was much cleaner.

On this project, I'm still working on it, but I'm thinking on something like a tab for each chart. For instance, if you are working with charts of two persons, you will have two tabs. Or if you are working with the natal chart of a person and his Solar Return, you will have again two tabs, one for the natal chart, the other for the solar return.

And the tabular data would be bellow each chart, like a document. So, instead of having to click through a lot of menus, you would just scroll down to the details you want.

I haven't settled on anything yet, and scrolling down is a thing that people are quite acquainted to nowadays, but there are compromises for this. It is still much on the open..


Hmm, I have some other ideas for multiple charts, but I think tabs are okay for a start.

I don't mind scrolling for tables. It's only the chart that needs to fit in the screen completely. It's fine to leave things open at the moment, you're in the beta stages after all.


jventura wrote:
The "comic style" chart? Don't tell anyone, but I like kairon.cc charts very much. Smile


Ah, I see. So that's where it's from Smile And you're welcome.



Larxene Xenohart
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Deb
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A petty point, but I don't understand why most astro-software charts come with coloured glyphs by default. Who needs coloured glyphs? Is the glyph for Leo made red so the astrologer can remember it's a fire sign? What other benefit is there over using black fonts on a white background as standard - and then letting those who want to colour their charts make the changes?

Joćo - will your chart templates include the option for proportional and non-proportional houses (ie., those that keep the angles upright and show the houses as 12 equal divisions of the chart)?
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Paul
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jventura wrote:

Yes it does! It took me almost two months to come up with a good enough solution, but now if you have a 30" LCD, you will see a clear chart without any blurriness. Check this pdf here and try to zoom it. It should scale without being blurry. It should even scale to netbook resolutions as good as well..


Hi

I like the look of the image but am I right in saying that we can't actually view an example chart itself? Or am I just not looking in the right place?

I am actually part way through creating an astrological application myself for a university assignment which will scale as you say without any blurriness.

I was half considering making it live in the future but the reality is that I don't really have any drive in me to make marketable astrological software and really just wanted something for myself. But I'm glad someone somewhere is at least creating modern astrological software online which can respond fully to different devices.

I'm a big fan of simple designs as well - my design motto is that if you *can* remove it, you should remove it.
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Larxene



Joined: 22 Sep 2012
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
A petty point, but I don't understand why most astro-software charts come with coloured glyphs by default. Who needs coloured glyphs? Is the glyph for Leo made red so the astrologer can remember it's a fire sign? What other benefit is there over using black fonts on a white background as standard - and then letting those who want to colour their charts make the changes?


Yeah, I didn't get that either, I prefer my zodiac signs to have the same colour, as I mentioned above. However, I don't mind having coloured planetary glyphs, as they are faster to identify, and useful in astrological magc. If all the glyphs (planets and zodiac) were to have colours though, it would become distracting rather than helpful, especially if the software does synastry the way Astrodienst does it.
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 292
Location: Portugal

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larxene wrote:
Hey Joao (is it pronounced Jo-ah, with a silent o?),


Hello again Larxene,

Joćo does use the last "o", and the "ć" (a with tilde) gives a kind of nasal sound to the "a" (something like "aun"). "Joćo" is the "John" in English. Here is the sound of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH8H55wogoQ Smile

In Portuguese we have lots of accents (ć, ā, į, ą) which changes the sound of vowels, sometimes using a more nasal sound, sometimes accentuating the strength, etc. Very hard to foreigners, specially for natives with languages similar to English (German, Danish, etc.), but is very phonetic and lyrical.

Larxene wrote:

The advantage of this is that, if people are actually fine with the pre-installed templates, you wouldn't have wasted time trying to figure out the customisation code. You only need to create new templates when there is a real demand for it. Cool


Yes, that is my idea! Smile Those times when developers built their softwares in caves and in "stealth mode" for years are long gone. Too much competition forces developers to really listen to people needs. Even Apple, a highly proprietary company, has now a beta-testing program for their operating systems, so they can listen to their costumers needs.

Larxene wrote:

...But that depends on your target market, and how THEY use the Lots.


"How they use the Lots" are the keywords.. I only use Arabic Parts when they are conjunct to another planet, except Pars Fortuna, which I check for the aspect to its dispositor to check for signs of wealth. So, the table fits me perfectly. But with time, I'll see how people use them, but I already know that I can't please everyone..

Larxene wrote:

Hmm, I have some other ideas for multiple charts, but I think tabs are okay for a start.


I am very much interested in hearing them. Send me an email (flatangleweb@gmail.com), or you can write them here if you want, maybe other developers can read them as well.


Thanks again for your ideas Larxene,
Joćo Ventura
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
A petty point, but I don't understand why most astro-software charts come with coloured glyphs by default. Who needs coloured glyphs? Is the glyph for Leo made red so the astrologer can remember it's a fire sign? What other benefit is there over using black fonts on a white background as standard - and then letting those who want to colour their charts make the changes?


Hello Deb,

in my case it was simply a proof-of-concept just to see how easy would be to add colors if needed, and how "pretty" could I make it. But I have the other "old style" which is simple enough, and it is easy (for me at least) to add other variations. I'll keep that in mind..

Deb wrote:
Joćo - will your chart templates include the option for proportional and non-proportional houses (ie., those that keep the angles upright and show the houses as 12 equal divisions of the chart)?


Are you referring to these type of charts?



It doesn't seem hard to implement, is it widely used? Do you use them?
By the way, is your email address the same as in the Contacts page and can I send you an email? (I don't like to send unsolicited emails)

Oh, and welcome to the Mac-side of computing! Smile


Thanks for the petty point! Smile
Joćo Ventura
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
I like the look of the image but am I right in saying that we can't actually view an example chart itself? Or am I just not looking in the right place?


Hello Paul,

isn't the chart wheel being rendered inside the PDF? Here is the link to it, in case something's not working: http://www.flatangle.com/static/files/FlatAngle-Elements.pdf.

Paul wrote:

I am actually part way through creating an astrological application myself for a university assignment which will scale as you say without any blurriness.


Well, to be honest to all other developers and their applications, most of them create charts that scale well in the applications, because they are just drawing circles and lines, and that scales usually fine if you are using a graphics library which handles it for you. But the problem is the export, because they can only export them in bitmap formats such as PNG's, JPG's, etc.

I've solved somewhat that problem by exporting to SVG. SVG is a vector based format, and so it scales fine either up or down. The PDF file (another vector format) is just an SVG chart rendered to PDF, so everyone can see it without extra software.

It is not really hard, but you have to be creative while searching for solutions. I've built too many creative prototypes in my PhD.. Smile

Paul wrote:

I was half considering making it live in the future but the reality is that I don't really have any drive in me to make marketable astrological software and really just wanted something for myself. But I'm glad someone somewhere is at least creating modern astrological software online which can respond fully to different devices.

I'm a big fan of simple designs as well - my design motto is that if you *can* remove it, you should remove it.


Reaching production-ready is hard, even more for me with the level I'm trying to impose to myself. But whatever you implement, if it's good, don't let anything stopping you from sharing it.

In fact, I am also an open-source evangelist, even have my own github repo (https://github.com/joaoventura). Github is where the Linux kernel is also hosted. And I personally would love to open source this project, but I don't know how sustainable it would be in the long term. Maybe some day, who knows..

By the way, are you in Computer Science also? I see we share the same view for design simplicity.. Smile


Joćo Ventura
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