Decans and the Chaldean Order of the Planets 1 by Michael Sternbach Hi Skyscribes, The decans have been a part of astrology ever since most ancient times. Originally, they were linked to fixed stars. For all we know, it was Teucros the Babylonian who connected them with the Chaldean order of the planets, starting with Mars ruling the first 10 degrees of Aries, followed by the Sun ruling 10?-20? etc. However, it seems like this system was not really popular until comparatively modern times when it was i.e. adopted by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Even nowadays, despite the fact that the concept is known to virtually all astrologers, few of them have much to say on its practical application. How are they being used in traditional and modern astrology? What do you make of if i.e. the Sun is in Aries and in the decan ruled by Venus? Does Venus become a co-ruler of the Sun? I invite any kind of information on this topic. Cheers, Michael Quote Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:01 pm
2 by james_m hi michael, pick up the book 'ancient whispers from chaldea' making babylonian astrology work for you by arthyr chadbourne if you are interested in gaining more insight into how the decans were used by the chaldeans.. the book is quite good on this topic.. arthyr uses the sidereal zodiac and states that the ideas can't be applied using the tropical zodiac.. he expresses some of what i would call innovative or unique astrological viewpoints that i haven't read anywhere else.. it is worth getting the book if you are really interested.. some of his understanding is steeped in indian astrology, but it is also drawing from sources i am unfamiliar with that bring out some fascinating viewpoints. he has a technique for prediction based on the use of the sunset chart in connection with the birth time chart that is quite original, although he claims this is what the chaldeans did.. could be for all i know.. get the book if you are interested in this sort of thing... Quote Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:24 pm
3 by Michael Sternbach Thanks James, That sounds interesting regarding one of the origins of the decan system. I plan to read the book. Quote Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:51 pm
4 by james_m michael, the book goes into depth on how the decans were used. their central use runs thru the the first half of the 500 page book - which is about as far as i am into it! Quote Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:52 am
5 by Michael Sternbach James, I have ordered the book. It interests me anyway, but I wonder - does it mention the Teucros system as outlined above? Quote Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:10 am
6 by james_m no to your question.. i haven't read anything on the chaldean order of the planets yet either. there is a book index and neither are mentioned in the index either. Quote Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:41 pm
7 by Michael Sternbach Teucros is believed to have lived in the 1st century AD. It looks like the book only covers the earlier history of the decans then. But that's interesting, too. I look forward to talking about the book with you. Quote Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:39 pm
8 by libra_rising I use Chaldean Terms and the Chaldean Order (Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon). I think the Chaldeans set that order in accordance to power rank. Saturn being the most powerful of the Superior planets and can modify/malefy the rest of the chart (and also the most public), whereas the Moon is the least powerful of the Inferior planets (but also the most intimate). Here's the Chaldean Terms chart: Quote Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:20 pm
9 by ea Austin Coppock recently published a very interesting book on the decans called "36 Faces" in which he writes about the history of the decans and in which he also has delineations of the traditional planets in the different decans. You can read about it here: http://austincoppock.com/shop/36-faces/ Quote Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:55 am
10 by Mark Hi Michael, Here is a very informative article by Dr Benjamin Dykes on the decans. Dykes points out there are at least two traditions of decans from the hellenistic era. One based on the Chaldean order (planetary speed), and the other based on the triplicity rulers by sign. http://www.bendykes.com/articles/decans.php This piece by Deborah Houlding on the origin of the decans is also very interesting: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/heritage/egyptians2.html The Chaldean order system seems to have been the earliest system and became the mainstream approach in later medieval astrology. Although the Roman astrologer Firmicus Maternus (4th Century CE) seems to have used the triplicity system. Moreover, Indian astrology seems to have adopted the triplicity system of decans as its main approach from quite an early stage. Although there was certainly no astrological consensus about the use of plantary decan rulers (when was there ever about anything?!) the use of the decans in assessing physiology seems to have been quite an ancient technique. Here are a couple of articles that pick up this topic in a general discussion of the astrological approach to physiology: Firstly, Regulus Astrology: http://regulus-astrology.com/pdf/WP%20o ... 100420.pdf Secondly, Bernard Eccles: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/physiognomy.html The decans also has a place in mundane astrology. For example in his work on eclipses called Annus Tenebrosus, William Lilly delineates eclipses by individual decan: https://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2 ... he-scenes/ Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:05 pm
11 by Michael Sternbach ea wrote:Austin Coppock recently published a very interesting book on the decans called "36 Faces" in which he writes about the history of the decans and in which he also has delineations of the traditional planets in the different decans. You can read about it here: http://austincoppock.com/shop/36-faces/ That looks very interesting. Thanks. Can you tell me if the book also addresses the Chaldean decans? The description is not specific in this regard. Quote Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:33 pm
12 by Michael Sternbach Mark wrote:Hi Michael, Here is a very informative article by Dr Benjamin Dykes on the decans. Dykes points out there are at least two traditions of decans from the hellenistic era. One based on the Chaldean order (planetary speed), and the other based on the triplicity rulers by sign. http://www.bendykes.com/articles/decans.php This piece by Deborah Houlding on the origin of the decans is also very interesting: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/heritage/egyptians2.html The Chaldean order system seems to have been the earliest system and became the mainstream approach in later medieval astrology. Although the Roman astrologer Firmicus Maternus (4th Century CE) seems to have used the triplicity system. Moreover, Indian astrology seems to have adopted the triplicity system of decans as its main approach from quite an early stage. Although there was certainly no astrological consensus about the use of plantary decan rulers (when was there ever about anything?!) the use of the decans in assessing physiology seems to have been quite an ancient technique. Here are a couple of articles that pick up this topic in a general discussion of the astrological approach to physiology: Firstly, Regulus Astrology: http://regulus-astrology.com/pdf/WP%20o ... 100420.pdf Secondly, Bernard Eccles: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/physiognomy.html The decans also has a place in mundane astrology. For example in his work on eclipses called Annus Tenebrosus, William Lilly delineates eclipses by individual decan: https://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2 ... he-scenes/ Mark Hi Mark, That's very useful information. Thanks. Besides my general interest in all things pertaining to planetary orders, what led me to the topic is its use by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. In particular, the numerous Tarot decks designed according to the GD system are based on it. The pip cards (minus the Aces) are directly correlated with it. The nine Wand cards are attributed to the Fire signs, the Cups to the Water signs, the Swords to the Air signs, the Pentacles to the Earth signs. As an example, I show you the Two of Cups which belongs to the first decan of Cancer, ruled by Venus. However, the meanings of the cards are, besides other factors, also influenced by the imagery of the decans according to the classical book on Magic called Picatrix. The meanings of the card above are given on www.corax.com as Drive: Love, unity in difference Light: Harmony, pleasure, mirth, love, friendship, passion Shadow: Dissipation, waste, sillyness, subtlety Dykes' article cites the Picatrix on the image of the 1st decan of Cancer: A man having twisted and crooked fingers and head; and his body is like the body of a horse, and having white feet and upon his body fig leaves. And this is a face of teaching, knowledge, of love, subtlety and of skills. All this makes me curious about the Chaldean decans in Astrology and Hermetic Magic. There just doesn't seem to be so much information within easy reach on how exactly they were used i.e. in Medieval/Renaissance Astrology. According to the last link you are providing above, certainly William Lilly was making use of them. Perhaps somebody versed in Lilly could give me some directions here? Quote Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:23 pm