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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Poll: What astrology software do you use?
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What astrology software do you use?
Solar Fire
43%
 43% 
Janus
31%
 31% 
Morinus
25%
 25% 
Kepler
0%
 0% 

Author Message
jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 293
Location: Portugal

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:
I've made the jump to cross platform so it is only a matter of time before I have native MacOSX, Android and iOS versions out.


Hi Curtis,

I don't know how experienced are you with cross-platform tools and different devices, but as I told you by email, I've exchanged native cross-platform tools (Qt) for the web. The web is, in my opinion, the ultimate cross-platform framework. Even smartTV's nowadays have a web browser built-in..

However, my suggestion would be for you to focus first on a OSX port if you plan to keep the interface similar to what you have now.

Android and iOS devices need, in my opinion and mostly everyone's opinion you find on the internet, different User Interfaces and new designs. For instance, you have to rely mostly on touch and have touchable areas around 48dp (see google guidelines here). Also, a smaller screen area implies less content displayed at once, so you have to rethink on how to display that information and in what order.

If I were to redo now my work on cross-platforms frameworks, I would plan for two different versions (desktop and mobile) and try to share the maximum of code between both versions (astrology calculations, chart drawings, etc.).


Good luck,
Joćo Ventura
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at999



Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 11

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jventura wrote:
zoidsoft wrote:
I've made the jump to cross platform so it is only a matter of time before I have native MacOSX, Android and iOS versions out.


The web is, in my opinion, the ultimate cross-platform framework. Even smartTV's nowadays have a web browser built-in..



Hi jventura,

I agree, AstroApp prove that BUT I could't know how popular would be the web-astrology interface in the future, Facebook astro-app would be the coolest thing all around BUT every decent astrologer would rather like to have it INSTALLED on his HD, it's a matter of integrity and trust in what we call authorship, so my vote goes to Curtis :-)

regards
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 293
Location: Portugal

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at999 wrote:
BUT every decent astrologer would rather like to have it INSTALLED on his HD, it's a matter of integrity and trust in what we call authorship


Yes, I considered that "perception" too! I think it depends on whether or not you trust the person that has implemented the system.

But these are interesting times that we are living, and sometimes I wish I could predict the future! Smile


Joćo Ventura
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at999



Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 11

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jventura wrote:
at999 wrote:
BUT every decent astrologer would rather like to have it INSTALLED on his HD, it's a matter of integrity and trust in what we call authorship


I think it depends on whether or not you trust the person that has implemented the system.



By default, I do trust BUT the product is for seeing not the author!
Anyway, the desktop apps will never die :-)
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 293
Location: Portugal

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at999 wrote:
By default, I do trust BUT the product is for seeing not the author!


Well, the author makes the product, and that is more explicit on smaller developer teams.

at999 wrote:
Anyway, the desktop apps will never die :-)


I hope not, I use quite a lot of them! Smile

Anyway, to clarify some terms, web framework does not necessarily mean the internet. You can have real desktop apps made entirely of web technologies.

For instance, my app Elements is made using web tools but runs natively in a Mac. The screen on the following picture is actually a screenshot of it running on my Mac. The current trend seems to be for increasingly more bluriness on what is a desktop app and what is a web app in the future.




Regards,
Joćo Ventura (http://www.flatangle.com)
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gene_v



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 35
Location: USA

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at999 wrote:

By default, I do trust BUT the product is for seeing not the author!
Anyway, the desktop apps will never die :-)


Trust but verify Smile. I can give you a free short-term access to AstroApp Pro so that you can check how the system works if that helps Wink. PM me for details.
I guess you can think of AstroApp (or any cloud app for that matter) in terms of regular email services. We have desktop email clients along with Gmail for example and they are able to happily co-exist.
Today everybody is using online email systems but come to think of it, users do not own their emails, never have been and never will. On top of that our government can always subpoena email providers (google, yahoo, etc) and get full access to your emails. Yet this doesn't stop people from using online mail. I realize that with astrology programs the feeling is different but the underlying principles are exactly the same.
As for desktop apps that will never die, in my experience they're dying along with desktops quite literally. 10 years ago my old version of Janus had died when my desktop/HD crashed. That's how AstroApp was born.
But you're right, it doesn't look like desktop apps are ever going to die as a breed.

Happy New Year!

Gene
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at999



Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 11

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gene,

I do understand what you're writing about BUT if you can, please, do share with us the approx. number of active users of AstroApp system (if it isn't a secret) and I'll foretell you the future of web-based astrology apps!
If the number goes above 5000 AstroApp it rocks, if not it's another story then!
Don't let me be misunderstood, there is a rumor that AstroApp compiles the ideas and features from the astrological desktop apps, not vice versa!
I may say there are so many good desktop's astro-apps in English, German, Russian, Spanish and the only one web-based - yours, so far Joao Smile

Regards
Nick
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Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recognize the list I initially gave is too small and far from perfect. But I thought that it was possible to add options later on, after the poll was created. I hoped people would start mentioning other softwares (like they did) and that I could update the poll. But this is not the case, unfortunately, am I right?

If there is a way to update the poll I'll do so and add options.
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Yair Alon
Kabbalist
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gene_v



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 35
Location: USA

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at999 wrote:

Don't let me be misunderstood, there is a rumor that AstroApp compiles the ideas and features from the astrological desktop apps, not vice versa!
I may say there are so many good desktop's astro-apps in English, German, Russian, Spanish and the only one web-based - yours, so far Joao Smile

Regards
Nick


Hi Nick,

I think that's exactly where the fundamental misunderstanding of cloud vs on-premise software projects lies. The cloud is not about the features, it's about delivery and deployment paradigm shift. Take Google Docs for example. It has the same features as MS Word (a small subset actually). Yet it has its niche of users. There is only so much you can do in the word processing area. Same applies to astrology - whether it's a cloud app or a desktop app both must be able to draw charts, let users configure calculation parameters, do things like progressions and primary directions and so on.

That being said, the cloud does allow doing certain things that would have never been possible with desktop applications (and vise versa). For instance, I created the AstroScribe tool in AstroApp that no other program has. The tool allows you to create session reports in real time and take notes during your working sessions. And by notes I mean charts, tables, diagrams, snapshots of what you're doing and so on. Then all that can be shared in real time with other AstroApp users, online, or with clients. There are plenty of other features in AstroApp that are completely unique but are not specific to the cloud concept. And every astrology program out there has similarities and every program has its unique features regardless of the way customers access it.

thanks
gene
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 970
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at999 wrote:
jventura wrote:
zoidsoft wrote:
I've made the jump to cross platform so it is only a matter of time before I have native MacOSX, Android and iOS versions out.


The web is, in my opinion, the ultimate cross-platform framework. Even smartTV's nowadays have a web browser built-in..



...Facebook astro-app would be the coolest thing all around BUT every decent astrologer would rather like to have it INSTALLED on his HD, it's a matter of integrity and trust in what we call authorship, so my vote goes to Curtis :-)


Thanks Nick! My decision to stick with desktop (for now) has more to do with bandwidth, security and interactivity. While high bandwidth computations can be done in the cloud, the delivery is only as good as your internet connection. I have some high intensity calculations in my 3D animations which actually make the screen look more like a window into space. Delivering the result can be helped by the lower resolution of the typical web based images, but serving up image after image of animation in real time made web based technologies impossible. They just can't do it without the local high speed ram (unless you have several dedicated T1 lines which is very unlikely for most users). I actually looked into doing this with Delphic Oracle several years ago, first with active x and again more recently with HTML5.

Also I noticed that some prefer something more "tangible". While it seems illogical to me to think of software in this way, there are a lot of people who still do and "ownership" is more closely achieved on the local machine than in the cloud. Once you have it, you have it, and it is a lot easier to have control over your machine and power supply (I used a solar panel out in the desert) than it is to maintain a good connection. Many people don't have good internet connections and I am one of them because I don't like hanging around cities and am off in some rather remote areas from time to time. Also the "subscription" model is more like "renting" than owning.

There is also the issue of security; a Facebook astrological app would just be plain irresponsible (with its ties to the NSA) and maintaining client confidentiality would be next to impossible. Small web apps don't really have to worry too much about being hacked because hackers like the bigger targets. But astrology needs a lot of the same personal information that would be needed for applying for a credit card so encryption becomes essential on the web.

Also there seems to be a misconception for new developers that software is about having the most features. Features that can't interact with other features become "static" displays that have a hard time giving astrologers that "ah ha" moment in their understanding of what is going on in a chart. Just displaying information in multiple displays doesn't cut it. You have to be able to cross reference to any other technique on the fly and that is what I have done with Delphic Oracle and to a lesser extent, Timaeus. I have a special way of doing this that no one has ever done before.

It really isn't about the difference in difficulty in writing for these technologies anymore. The tools are out there to write in your preferred programming languages for every platform (even the web). But programmers don't need to worry too much. The typical user has at least one mobile and one desktop. They use their mobile devices during the day (at work, etc) and typically prefer the larger screen of their desktop at night (as shown by Google Analytics).
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Curtis Manwaring
Zoidiasoft Technologies, LLC
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