Isn't prediction working or what?

1
Hello, everyone!

I have a male client of mine that discovered he was cheated by his wife on March, 5, 2014. The case happened a few days earlier on March, 2. Since then, he broke his relationship.

When I looked at the transits, secondary progressions and solar arc directions for the date I haven't seen any relevant indication of that, in such a way that if I had to foresee that, I would certainly fail. Firdaria and Profections didn't seem to show anything either.

Do you, folks, see something of that kind on these charts?

Natal + Transits
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Natal + Progressions
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Natal + Directions
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Best Regards
Yair A.
Yair Alon
Kabbalist

2
Yair Alon,

I see plenty of indications of probems in the romantic relationships in both the natal figure and the annual techniques. However, I use the Sidereal zodiac and that is probably why.

The native has a mixture of 7th house/Venus and malefic issues in the distributions from the ASC, the profections, the solar revolution and all the way down to the transits on the month and day of the happening. If you want, I can post these indications tomorrow, but I know some people get moist-eyed about the thought of a zodiac not Tropical in measurement . It is completely up to you.
http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com

3
hi yair,

i agree with konrad, but don't need the sid zod to see it..

the chart has saturn/venus conjunction which is coming right into the saturn return here.. someone on another thread was wondering about saturn returns. your example is a good one from my point of view as it is sometimes difficult to get a feel for the bigger picture when you are looking at the up close details.. saturn returns are all going to hinge on saturns position in the natal chart.. it goes without saying, but for some reason the cookbooks give some the belief that you can isolate saturn and ignore it's relationship with the rest of the chart when you want to understand the return.. in fact - you can't! the whole chart always has to be taken into account.

saturn rules the 7th and is exactly conjunct venus.. together they emphasize relationships.. the fact the saturn return is happening on this chart right now is further clarity on it all from my own pov.. these 2 planets generally never get along great, but in a conjunction are a special type of challenge.

another observation i have made which is generally ignored for some strange reason in many astro circles is the sun cycle and just where it is at in relation to the beginning of this important cycle.. it begins where the sun is at birth and extends thru the 12 signs back to the original one where it is at birth.. in this chart at the moment the sun is transiting the 12th sector of it's cycle.. the themes associated with scorpio are amplified at present and in a certain way by being in this 12th house angle to the sun itself.. if the relationship cycle emphasized by saturn here wasn't enough to show how critical relationships are to this particular chart, then the collective transit of 4 planets including sun, saturn, venus and mercury in the 12th sector to the sun and in the 5th sign to the ascendant ought to be plenty to give one an idea of where this person might find themselves at this point in time..

i haven't looked at all the other predictive techniques.. i don't feel i need to! there is other astro symbolism at work here just via the transit data and chart data to strengthen my view.. mars in libra, square the angles is now being replicated with mars headed towards an exact conjunction with the descendant too..

could i have seen and predicted it beforehand? i would say yes based on the saturn return here and i probably would have been watching this sun in scorpio phase as a likely spot for it to come to the surface.. my 2c.. thanks for bringing it up..

4
James,

I may be misunderstanding you here, but the break in the relationship happened in March 2014, not at this present time. The transit chart for that date is in the very first bi-wheel posted.

5
Konrad wrote:I see plenty of indications of probems in the romantic relationships in both the natal figure and the annual techniques. However, I use the Sidereal zodiac and that is probably why.
Hello, Konrad! Thanks for your quick answer. I'd love to see what you've found using the Sidereal Zodiac, because, as I said, I don't see anything in the Tropical one. Plus, it will be interesting for me to see the Sidereal Zodiac in use, since I've never seen it before.

So, if you don't mind, I'd like to see the data and indications you found!

Best Regards
Yair Alon
Kabbalist

6
james_m wrote:the chart has saturn/venus conjunction which is coming right into the saturn return here..
Hi, James! Ok... Saturn/Venus in the natal chart shows indications of how difficult love is for this particular chart. But my point is: Saturn is 9 degrees away from its actual return. Isn't that too much? Even if you say no, I see it would be difficult to tell the client, then, that on March 2014, he would be cheated. The time span is way too large.
another observation i have made which is generally ignored for some strange reason in many astro circles is the sun cycle and just where it is at in relation to the beginning of this important cycle.. it begins where the sun is at birth and extends thru the 12 signs back to the original one where it is at birth.. in this chart at the moment the sun is transiting the 12th sector of it's cycle.. the themes associated with scorpio are amplified at present and in a certain way by being in this 12th house angle to the sun itself..
This part of your reasoning I haven't understood. The Sun is transiting Pisces at the moment of the cheating (March, 2014), and it is on the 9th house. Maybe you thought, as Konrad said, the cheating happened nowadays, on November? This isn't the case.
there is other astro symbolism at work here just via the transit data and chart data to strengthen my view.. mars in libra, square the angles is now being replicated with mars headed towards an exact conjunction with the descendant too..
This is another point I didn't get. Mars going towards a exact conjuction with the descendant? Descendant is at 20 degrees, Mars at 27, and maximum they would have a square. As in the case of Saturn, Mars have passed its return already in three degrees (from 24, Natal, to 27 in the Transits). This is equal to a few months off the record, and, as for me, wouldn't be a very precise kind of prediction.

Sorry if it seems I am debating your data... This is not the case. I just want to understand what you saw and how would you be able to foresee this coming.

Best Regards and thanks for your reply!
Yair Alon
Kabbalist

7
Sometimes an event is not relevant because it is part of a wider event.

Always events should be considered in the wider context.

In this case, very important is the beginning of the relationship and / or the beginning of marriage ...

So we must look for a previous cause. Why? To find out whether the current event in the march, there is only one mistake or part of a wider context, in the sense of the earlier dissatisfaction with the relationship / marriage.

In this sense should discern whether and how the period from 04/2011 to 03/2012 in any way connected with current events either as the beginning of a marriage / relationship or as the beginning of the end of the relationship / marriage ... if you have access to this data ...

If you do not have this information, you can only guess at the causes of fraud and breaking relations

This is one thesis

Another theory is that the relationship created 2007/2008 (or 2001 but a slight possibility considering of his age)
In this case, it may be dissatisfaction with the relationship / marriage ... in this case it is more important what followed in 2015...? event in 03/2014 is just inducement, for what follows, and the cause is somewhere else (one of these two thesis or any third possibility)

there are lots of possibilities ... if you can get to the data, you can learn more about the context of life, and how it can be traced in the natal chart ...

Sorry for my english

8
hi konrad,

thanks! you are correct. i thought this had happened very recently and didn't look to the date of the 'event' itself in march.

i still hold to the saturn return being central to this event given saturns position in the natal chart. and as konrad pointed out and to which i agree with, the solar return gives a lot of insight into this event happening sometime during the solar cycle for 2014. it is interesting to now look at the event data and note the position of mars close to it's natal position, or venus position reinforcing the overall picture of the 2014 solar return.

this means i wouldn't have isolated the particular month on this event given my overview, but i do feel the nature of the event is captured in general with the saturn return in combination with other features of the natal, solar return and solar arc direction data. here is what i am getting at.

if you overlap the solar return chart you can note uranus at 8 aries conjunct the midheaven at 7. if you look at the natal chart note the exact square involving moon/uranus.. the moon is the ascendant ruler in this chart. now take a look at the solar arc directions and note how this moon/uranus square has moved into putting venus/saturn on the solar arc midpoint of these 2.. the solar arc mars is in the exact same place as transiting saturn at 23 scorpio - both of which are exact 135 the midheaven at 7 aries.. maybe that is too much for those who don't use midpoints, but to me the confluence of all of this reinforces the theme of the chart and the event that has come to pass based on all of it.

my idea of solar houses and astrologers not paying attention to them is something others can consider as having relevance or not. now working backwards with the specific date of the event i note the sun in the solar 4th square it's natal position at 13 sag in a solar 4th house and suggestive of an ending of significance.. i wouldn't have been able to pinpoint the event to this date or month, but i continue to believe the saturn return and especially in combination with the solar return data supports the nature of the event as i have tried to briefly describe here..

yair - hopefully my additional information here clears up my position on your questions. i didn't observe the date of the event and made my comments based on it being close to the present time in regards to my use of solar house positions.

9
Yair,
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firstly,there should be sign of romantic trouble in the nativity. The nativity is where we compare everything, nothing outside of it and on its own has any meaning be it event chart, revolution or anything else. In your client's chart there is strong testimony of pain in romantic relationships. Venus is in detriment in the 6th conjoined Saturn; the Lot of Marriage is on the ASC and square Mars without the aspect of either benefic and its lord, Mercury, is in the 6th, retrograde, conjoined Saturn and its dodekatemoira is at 28 Sagittarius and in an overcoming relationship with Mars; Jupiter as lord of the 7th is in the 8th sign and ruled by a malefic badly-placed. These give us our signatures to look for with this event.

Depending on the birth-time, the directed ASC moved into the bounds of Jupiter/Cancer at the beginning of 2014 and is partnered by the Sun via its sextile coming in the previous bounds of Mercury/Cancer. Jupiter taking over the major times brings to fruition issues that he manages in the nativity. The native is in a 5th sign profection this year, so Libra, with Venus as lady of the year. Venus' natural significations highlight Jupiter's management of the 7th house this year.
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The revolution confirms the 7th house issues here. Jupiter as distributor is partiley conjoined to the Lot of Marriage and opposed to Venus. Venus as lady of the year is transiting the 7th sign, and partiley square to natal Mars. The Moon transiting the 7th sign at the revolution further emphasises the romantic relationships. With Jupiter bringing forth the potential for major 7th house issues, and Venus adding her testimony, natal Mars afflicting both the revolution distributor and lady of the year while doing the same to one of the planets tasked with managing the marriage, we can judge that the event this year will be afflicted in a martial manner.

As for timing, it is clear in hindsight, but it would also be pretty simple to give it as one of the time-frames to expect the event to manifest beforehand too. Personally, I use the Sun's movement through the signs to mark out the year and therefore the movement of the monthly profections. The client's 4th month began on the 4th of March with the profected ASC moving to Capricorn. On the day of the break-up, Venus was transiting the monthly profection overcome by square from Mars who had only three days before stationed in the sign of the annual profection, Libra. It was a perfect time for the Mars/Venus event foretold in the revolution to come to fruition.
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i just want to echo what konrad has said, as i think it is important to repeat it - or i am repeating my own thought i have expressed here at skyscript numerous times - predicting an event before it happens is very difficult.. it is much easier to do it all in hindsight.. i refer to this as 'hindsight' astrology which has the benefit of looking back at the details to come to the conclusion after the fact.. doing this beforehand is a completely different matter.

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First, Alex! Thanks for your answer. Your English is not bad at all, and I could understand it very well.

I see your point in trying to analyze the whole relationship as to try to predict something. If you want I can give you the data about the day this client met his wife and the day they started dating. However, both the client as his wife tell that this cheating was a one-time-thing. It was a mistake, an error and not something that was done because they were unhappy at the relationship.
james_m wrote:i still hold to the saturn return being central to this event given saturns position in the natal chart.
Yes, I agree with you that Saturn has to do with that, but I wouldn't be able to tell the native that this would represent a cheating... At least from what I see.
james_m wrote:the solar return gives a lot of insight into this event happening sometime during the solar cycle for 2014
.

Can you please tell me some of the insights you have?
james_m wrote: if you overlap the solar return chart you can note uranus at 8 aries conjunct the midheaven at 7. if you look at the natal chart note the exact square involving moon/uranus.. the moon is the ascendant ruler in this chart. now take a look at the solar arc directions and note how this moon/uranus square has moved into putting venus/saturn on the solar arc midpoint of these 2.. the solar arc mars is in the exact same place as transiting saturn at 23 scorpio - both of which are exact 135 the midheaven at 7 aries.. maybe that is too much for those who don't use midpoints, but to me the confluence of all of this reinforces the theme of the chart and the event that has come to pass based on all of it.
Yes, indeed, lol, I think this is too much for someone who doesn't use midpoints, lol. But interesting analysis. I don't take Uranus into consideration in my analysis, but even if I did, I think I wouldn't say Uranus in 10th would result in this problem. What I found interesting is the relation of the natal Moon/Uranus square and this Uranus transit. Maybe Uranus on 10th was activating via a quincunx this emotional problem of the Moon squared by Uranus. But we should assume the use of Uranus and of quincunx (hardly one of the major aspects used).
james_m wrote:now working backwards with the specific date of the event i note the sun in the solar 4th square it's natal position at 13 sag in a solar 4th house and suggestive of an ending of significance..
Why do you see the Sun on the 4th in the Solar Return? Maybe you used Jerusalem as the anniversary place? The Solar Return happened in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and, therefore, the Sun was in the 11th.

Your answer was awesome, James_m, thanks for that and for your patience. You showed me some things that I haven't seen before.

I still feel a little bit frustrated with this chart, though, because besides the loose Saturn return, I don't see any hard evidences of a broken relationship here. Maybe this Uranus thing, but even so...

Best Regards
Yair Alon
Kabbalist

12
Wonderful post, Konrad!

I think this means a lot of points to sidereal zodiac. In this case and following your reading there are, indeed, a lot of signs of what was happening that year, month and day!

I will have to read your post again many times. It is very rich! Thanks for that.
Yair Alon
Kabbalist