Transits from/to debilitated planets

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What would be the difference between transiting Moon in Scorpio applying in a conjunction to Venus in Scorpio, and Moon in Cancer applying to natal Venus in Cancer?

I am asking FOUR questions.

1. Effect in outcome FROM the transit of a debilitated planet.

2. Effect in outcome TO a debilitated natal planet.

3. Effect in outcome FROM a debilitated planet TRANSIT to a debilitated natal planet.

4. Effect in outcome from a dignified transiting planet to a debilitated natal planet.

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Hi ST!

I have Venus in Cancer but, transiting applications of the Moon happen so often that, in most cases, their effect is either minor or goes completely unnoticed (because, although coloured by the symbolism of the planets, such events can simply be labeled "every day"). It's like the transiting influence of retrograde Mercury - your letter gets lost, you get stuck in an elevator or you leave the newspaper that you just bought at a bus stop but, after a while, you don't event remember these things.

However, when it comes to the symbolism of the planets inside such positions, I would say that it is always important to consider the nature of the sign. A planet can be debilitated in more than one way but, it's the nature of the sign, the nature of the aspect and the shape of the other planet that will say as to how this influence is most likely to manifest. For instance, an important activity can be weakened (non-satisfying results), a twisted manifestation of any of the planets might come to the surface (getting badly drunk instead of having a great time at a party) etc.

But, without any information about the nature of the relationship of the two planets, I would say that it is almost impossible to answer any of these questions in a few words.
1. Effect in outcome FROM the transit of a debilitated planet.

2. Effect in outcome TO a debilitated natal planet.
I'll give you an example.
What is Venus? It's the energy of love, grace and art, female sexuality and a good cup of old red wine. What's Venus in Mars where it is fallen? Obviously, the same energy only either enable to express itself properly or expressing itself in a deviated form. A young Astrologer recently told me- Venus in Scorpio is a whore, right? Now, whilst his shallow assumption is completely unacceptable (why didn't he say a "secret lover"?!), it is a good example of how, on a very basic level, someone sees the mixture of the two energies. Venus is Scorpio conjunct Jupiter (expansion) would then be,as the protagonists of the good old old Britcom "Alo, alo" used to say- The fallen Madonna With the Big Boobies.
Now, how this energy will play out in combination with another planet will not only depend on the dignities and the nature of the other planet- it will also depend on the nature of the aspect. So, let us say that a well dignified Cancerian Moon is offering her hand to this planet through a trine - we can expect a benevolent help from a female or moon type of activities. But, that's where the final parameter comes into the play- Venus is not very receptive to this help because she is placed in a sign where the Moon can't receive it!

On the other hand, Venus can attacked by a malevolent planet which makes the situation even worse! Imagine this Venus receiving a square from a dignified, cadent malefic such (although, some would argue that a fallen malefic in an angle is equally capable of delivering enormous damage) or any other planet for that matter. We might have a case of a rapist attacking his victim. But, then again, if that other planet is Mars, the tension of the aspect is somewhat decreased because Venus is actually placed inside the terms of Mars.
Finally, this venus could be an attacker as well. At this point, it would be important to determine which planet rules the person or activity of our biggest interest. If a fallen Venus is attacking the Ascendant ruler then we easily have an answer.
So, it's quite complicated.

Cheers,

aglaya

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aglaya wrote:....I would say that it is almost impossible to answer any of these questions in a few words.

....So, it's quite complicated.

Cheers,

aglaya
ditto all that..

venus transit to my moon in scorpio is always generally good.

to echo aglaya's comments - you can't do cookie cutter astrology without consideration of the whole chart.. as soon as you are into examining the whole chart - you are no longer doing cookie cutter astrology.

you have to see the overall set up in the chart to appreciate any combo pattern - debilitated and etc. etc..

mars transit to my moon in scorpio is generally always a good thing, although you would have to know my mars position and where the moon is in the chart to appreciate it better - again consideration of the whole chart is necessary...

the other thing is transits are not the be all and end all of predictive astrology.. most of the time transits are no big deal, especially with the inner planets... the outer planets is different due the fact the transit hangs around for a longer time.. the transit of saturn i consider a big deal and i don't think it just happens on the degree - no way about that..

donna cunningham just uses transits as i understand it.. but i am quite sure she would focus on the transit of the outer planets as always having more weight in any understanding of the unfolding of events in a persons life.. these minor planet transits are generally quite insignificant as i see it..

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james_m wrote:
aglaya wrote:..
the other thing is transits are not the be all and end all of predictive astrology.
This is where I didn't want it to go. That is because I want an answer to the question I asked, and I feel this is a brush off. I asked the question with the assumption in mind that it depends on time lords, which houses, sect,etc.

But feel free to tell us more about the placement of your Moon in Scorpio and what you experience. How was your recent Saturn conjunction to Moon? And Where is your own natal Mars? You don't have to answer but it's interesting if you do. Mercury also just passed a conjunction to your Moon.

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I don't pay attention to planets being supposedly "debilitated". This is the guff you read when you first study astrology, and forget when you start looking at charts for yourself. There might be something in it, but it needs to prove itself, not just rely on what somebody grand poobah wrote a hundred years ago.

I don't see Mars in Libra or Taurus any more "debilitated" than Mars in Aries, or Mars in Scorpio. It just doesn't seem relevant at all.

And all the lordships and rulerships can seem a bit feudal, I don't pay any attention to things like the planetary ruler of one house....when you look at a lot of charts it doesn't seem to mean anything.

(The weird thing is that some of these ancient astrologers made accurate predictions, based on charts that when calculated with modern computers were actually wrong....)

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StellarTiggy wrote:
james_m wrote: the other thing is transits are not the be all and end all of predictive astrology.
This is where I didn't want it to go. That is because I want an answer to the question I asked, and I feel this is a brush off. I asked the question with the assumption in mind that it depends on time lords, which houses, sect,etc.
st - maybe next time you can acknowledge the positives instead of emphasizing the negatives. it gives me less incentive to offer thoughts on your questions.. i will however offer this helpful thought for anyone who ponders the questions you have asked.

1) consider the natal relationships that exists between the specific planets under consideration for the particular transit.

2) consider the natal sign/house placement of the planet that is making an aspect as it will have much bearing in how it impacts another planet by transit.

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Hi James,
st - maybe next time you can acknowledge the positives instead of emphasizing the negatives. it gives me less incentive to offer thoughts on your questions..
Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying. I am certainly not being negative here when I say this. I asked a question to the forum because I wanted an answer to that particular question, otherwise why would I have asked? I felt you were diverting attention away from the topic and that is something I don't want. You can offer additional information any time you like, but diverting or brushing off the topic is something that is a no no in my book.

If you feel less inclined to respond to my posts you don't have to do so. I wouldn't want you to feel forced or obligated. But if you do respond please keep in mind that I found it a tad rude when you said this topic is not important in itself, after I asked about it.

One of the reasons I asked this question is because I recently had a transit to the exact degree and minute of a planet in my natal chart and it manifested as an event in the minutes of time leading up to the perfection of the transit. This is obviously not the first time but it made me look more closely at transits since the particular planets are not really timelords in my chart at this time.

Anyway, don't feel obligated/forced to respond if you feel put upon.

StellarTiggy

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I thought twice before posting again but, I'll do it anyway.

ST, the trouble is that most astrologers here adhere to the principles of traditional astrology. That is not to say that we all approach Astrology from the same angle; there are different branches and quite a handful of different schools but, this way or the other, some general rules and principles of traditional teachings are constantly followed. That said, not many traditional astrologers pay a lot of attention to transits or treat them as stand alone predictive methods.
The symbolism of certain planets, well or badly dignified, making a stressful or a benevolent aspect to another planet can be discussed in many forms but, I somehow doubt (and the thread supports my impression) that you will actually be able to get a lot of straightforward answers or examples. So, when someone here shares their impression and adds a remark that he or she would not actually treat it is a relevant indicator of an event, that does not mean that a new discussion is being opened or that we're trying to shift the focus from the question to the ever lasting discussion called "modern vs.traditional", it's only a way of making sure that the answer is not misleading. The participants are trying to share their point of view but, at the same time, they want to point out that they're no experts when it comes to transits as they, themselves, don't use them as a predictive method.
It's modern astrology that uses them quite a lot. But, then again, you would hardly be able to get a decent answer from an modern astrologer because they don't pay a lot of attention to the dignities!

If you read Fleur's reply you'll see that she actually does the exact same thing- she specifically says that she doesn't follow some of the traditional principles. That's her approach!

So, in a way, you have picked a predictive method that is used mainly by modern astrologers and want to use it by following traditional rules (transiting planets with dignities). Modernists don't pay a lot of attention to the dignities. Whichever way you turn, you can only get a partial answer to your question.

However, there could be a different approach...

StellarTiggy wrote: One of the reasons I asked this question is because I recently had a transit to the exact degree and minute of a planet in my natal chart and it manifested as an event in the minutes of time leading up to the perfection of the transit. This is obviously not the first time but it made me look more closely at transits since the particular planets are not really timelords in my chart at this time.
y
It would have been nice to see that example; with even that one example of a precise prediction based solely on transits, you're actually one step ahead of us.

Cheers,

aglaya