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the Coronation of Hosrow I Anushirvan

 
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astroart



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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Location: Varna, Bulgaria

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:13 am    Post subject: the Coronation of Hosrow I Anushirvan Reply with quote

The only surviving horoscope from the Sassanian Empire is preserved in the Book of Astrology by the famous Persian astrologer al-Qaṣrāni composed in about 889 A.D. and entitled Kitab al-Masāi̕ l fi ̔ilm aḥkam an-nuǧum (Book on the Questions of the Judgement of the Stars).

Below is the translation of the Arabic text accompanying the horoscope of the coronation of the Sassanian Shāhanshāh (King of Kings) Khosrow I Anūshirvan according to the book of al-Qaṣrāni. I am also publishing the horoscope itself of the coronation, translated for the first time from Arabic into modern language.

The text:

"The crown of the kingdom of the Irānshahr was laid on the head of Khosrow Anūshirvan in the district Hormazdardashir in the garden of Maṣyar on the day of Dai be Azar of the month Ardibehesht in the year <one> thousand and <one> hundred of the solar calendar."

The horoscope:



As everyone can see for themselves the Sassanian horoscope is in sidereal and NOT in a tropical zodiac.
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Last edited by astroart on Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

531 AD seems very close to the precession value of zero by the Sassanian or Surya Siddhanta ayanamsha.

PD
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astroart



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You' re wrong.

You must recalculate the horoscope of the coronation of the Sassanian Emperor Khosrow I Anūshirvan with this data:

18 August 531 A.D. Julian Calendar

roughly 09:00 a.m. Local Mean Time (- 03:14:49)

Ahvaz, Iran

long.: 48 42' E

lat.: 31 19 ' N

Tropical zodiac

and then you will see what are the differences of the longitudes of the planets in the original Sassanian horoscope ( in the sidereal zodiac) and in the modern one ( in the tropical zodiac).
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
531 AD seems very close to the precession value of zero by the Sassanian or Surya Siddhanta ayanamsha. PD

The zodiac used in the text is very close to the Raman zodiac used today, which is related to the Surya Siddhanta value. I'll post a table of comparison planets soon (Raman-Text-Tropical).

Would it be possible to re-format the diagram so it fits in the normal page space on the forum?
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
pankajdubey wrote:
531 AD seems very close to the precession value of zero by the Sassanian or Surya Siddhanta ayanamsha. PD

The zodiac used in the text is very close to the Raman zodiac used today, which is related to the Surya Siddhanta value. I'll post a table of comparison planets soon (Raman-Text-Tropical).

Would it be possible to re-format the diagram so it fits in the normal page space on the forum?


thanks,

i will wait till the software works out the position of Sun in Julian vs forced Gregorian date and then adding the Sassanian value to the tropical one.

With sassanian zero date ahead of 531 AD- the value should be added to tropical.

18 Aug 531 AD in JC gives Sun as Leo 25 deg 42 min, then sassanian ayanamsha adds to it.

http://www.astro.com/swisseph/ae/0500/ae_0531.pdf

PD
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the comparison of the Raman ayanamsa with the text positions and tropical positions. The data is from Solar Fire 5.1 It seems possible that tropical tables might have been used for Jupiter and Saturn. I simply asked for the Raman zodiac with no adjustment of degrees. I get the same type of results for horoscopes in Masha'allah's On Reception. It seems that Masha'allah may have used similar tables.

In the text under discussion, is the degree for Saturn simply an error? I didn't place the Moon's north node (Dragon's Head) in the table, but the text degree is 23 Gemini, and the Raman mean value is 23Gem10. Close!


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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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astroart



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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

In the text under discussion, is the degree for Saturn simply an error?


The existing copy which I used is may be the oldest from all extant copies of Kitab al-Masāi̕ l and is dated 640 A.H./1246 A.D. (for all extant copies see: GAS, VII, pp. 138-139). All numerals in the diagram of the horoscope are in the older Abjad numeral system which is different from the Hindu numerals (for more info about the Abjad system see: Rida A.K.Irani, Arabic Numeral Forms, Centaurus 1955, vol.4, No.1, pp.1-12). The scriber of the copy of the Kitab al-Masāi̕ l used for the degree of Saturn the Arabic letter ه (hā̓ ) which means 5 (five). I also think that there is an error in the text and the original number of the degrees of Saturn probably was different.
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure where the confidence about the chart being sidereal comes from.
Why is this not just a case of retrospective bad calculation or a bad ephemeris day.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
I am not sure where the confidence about the chart being sidereal comes from.
Why is this not just a case of retrospective bad calculation or a bad ephemeris day.

In India the Raman zodiac has preserved the Surya Siddhanta ayanamsa values, at least within several minutes. Simple math shows that these sidereal values were used in the horoscope. Just look at the table. The degrees of the Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars and Jupiter are too close to be accidental. Also the same closeness exists in charts in Masha'allah's On Reception. It would take a stretch of the imagination to suggest that these positions were due to a "bad ephemeris day."

It's obvious from the table, however, that it can be easily undestood why the confusion of zodiacs existed in early centuries since there are only about two degrees difference between the sidereal zodiac in use at that time and the tropical positions. It would seem that in the case of Mercury and Saturn, whatever parameters were used in the tables were wrong or else the degrees were copied incorrectly.

It's quite possible that as new tables appeared, tropical and sidereal calculations were combined in some way or simply confused until wholly tropical tables were in general use. But this is not the case regarding the horoscope in question which is based on Surya Siddhanta values.

I'll try to find time to make a comparison table of degrees in On Reception.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the degrees for Mars, Jupiter and Saturn from the charts in Masha'allah's On Reception. (ARHAT 1998, translated by Robert Hand) There is no doubt that the positions of the planets are sidereal, though by today's standards the computation can only be called casual. The zodiac used approximates the Raman zodiac which had its origin in Surya Siddhanta values. Calculations are from Solar Fire 5.1.


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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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astroart



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not sure where the confidence about the chart being sidereal comes from.
Why is this not just a case of retrospective bad calculation or a bad ephemeris day.



Same situation we have with the charts from the Hellenistic period. Lеt's look at the electional horoscope by Palchus erected for the 5th September 487 A.D. for the first hour of the day (O.Neugebauer and H.B.van Hoesen, Greek Horoscopes, Philadelphia, 1987, pp. 149-150).

Here we have the same problems: scribal error for Saturn and a big difference for Mercury. The differences between the tropical longitudes of the planets and longitudes in the text are almost the same as in the Sassanian horoscope.
All calculations for the tropical positions are according to the above mentioned book of Neugebauer and van Hausen.


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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greek Horoscopes was published in 1987, just at the time when astrological software was becoming available for DOS. So calculations today are a little different, and in a few cases the difference between text and tropical positions is greater than noted in Greek Horoscopes.

Tropical Degrees:
------------------
Mars is 933 Capricorn rather than 8 Capricorn.
Saturn is 1926 Sagittarius rather than 18 Sagittarius.
Mercury has moved into 021 Libra from 30 Virgo.
(Dragon's head is in Scorpio rather than Virgo.)
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astroart



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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The situation with the accuracy of the modern re-calculations of the horoscope's longitudes in the Greek Horoscopes is actually worse. First edition of the Greek Horoscopes was in 1959, 5 years before the publishing of Planetary, Lunar, and Solar Positions A. D. 2 to
649 at Five-Day and Ten-Day Intervals
by Briant Tuckerman, the standart reference source for all later scholars like prof. Pingree and others. Actually all computations in the Greek Horoscopes for the Moon and Sun and planets were carried out by means of Paul Viktor Neugebauer's tables published in the years 1914 and 1932 respectively. The accuracy is therefore not large and namely one degree.
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astroart



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Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big difference in the values of Mercury in the ancient charts (the Sassanian and the Greek) between the text and the modern computations has a simple explanation. Mercury could not be observed during its conjunction with Sun and during most of the time it is invisible and consequently the positions show enormous errors where the predictions could not be observationally controlled. One example from the modern time: in Andrea Argoli, Ephemerides ab Anno MDCXXI ad MDCXL, Rome, 1621 the errors for Mercury's position for 1651 vary from + 5 to - 9.
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