skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Question about the Hyleg

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Lazarus



Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 88

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:44 pm    Post subject: Question about the Hyleg Reply with quote

Okay so if anyone has taken Zoller's DMA course then hopefully they can help me. In Lesson 10 he asks you to determine the Hyleg in a sample natal chart he gives you via Ptolemy's method and then Bonatti's. Following Bonatti's rules I would select the Sun (which is in the 1st, placed in Aries, conjunct Venus (the ruler of the decan in which the Sun is placed) and sextile Saturn in the 11th (participating triplicity ruler of the Sun's position). HOWEVER Zoller, for reasons I cannot discern, selects the POF which is placed in Leo and in the 5th and aspected by the Sun (the natal figure has a waning Moon (preventional) thus the POF is chosen over the Ascendant). So for the life of me I cannot figure out what is going on. Saturn aspects the Sun by sextile and the orb is 10 degrees but that works via this logic: Sun = 15 degree orb, Saturn = 9 degree orb; 15+9=24; 24/2 = 12, so they are in orb. If you haven't taken the course but feel you could help me then I will post the chart under consideration.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ben



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lazarus,

Zoller's reasoning (personal communication) is that he rejects the Sun because it is below the horizon. Both Ptolemy and Bonatti prefer that the Sun be above the horizon, even though there is a zone beneath the Ascendant that is still acceptable in their view.

Best,
Ben
_________________
www.bendykes.com
Traditional Astrology Texts and Teaching
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for adding that Ben. I was going to suggest that myself, but only as an assumption. I don't think we have any demonstrated chart examples from Bonatti's work which clarify his approach, do we? I know the text says to use the Sun "if you were to find it in the first" (your translation, p.1129), but what was meant by "the first"? Would he have used the whole of the first house? From what you say, Zoller didn't think so.

It is notable how strongly Bonatti was influenced by Al-Qabisi, and Al-Qabisi's instruction was to consider the Sun as the priority for a diurnal chart if it is within the 5 above the horizon (not more than that). If it is below the horizon it is still taken as the first choice, but only if it is in a masculine sign (and also aspected by one of its dispositors, as per usual). The condition by which it doesn't qualify is if it is below the horizon and in a feminine sign, which doesn't apply here with the Sun in Aries.

Lazarus, the detail about the Sun being aspected by one of its triplicity rulers was probably not too significant for Bonatti, since he reports a rule, which I think is also evident in Dorotheus, that if the Sun is in Aries or Leo, its rulership and exaltation, it can be taken as the hyleg even without an aspect from one of its dispositors - it becomes the hyleg and its own alcocoden (see Ben's trans, p.1137). The same applies to the Moon in Taurus or Cancer - a principle which, I think, could have originated the remark we find in Lilly, that if the Moon is in its own dignities or the signs of Jupiter "it still performs".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lazarus



Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 88

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to you both that is very helpful. What was so confusing was that Bonatti's methodology listed in the assignment does say to take the Sun if it is in the 1st house and the instructions were to use Bonatti's method to find the Hyleg. I personally at this point see no inherent logic in rejecting the Sun's placement in the 1st but being that I am new to this I will keep an open mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated