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Notes on the nativity and death of Jean Baptiste Morin
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Wolfgang



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 158
Location: Wr. Neudorf, Austria

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Southern Cross

I used for SR PD the birthplace!

I think this works better... more exact!

I hope you can reproduce the same hits now!

Wolfgang
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Southern Cross



Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 49

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Wolfgang,

which program did you use for your results?

I have solar fire and morinus but not placidus.

Southern Cross
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Wolfgang



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 158
Location: Wr. Neudorf, Austria

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I used PLACIDUS , Prg. Rumen Kolev

Wolfgang

P.S. This ARMC is important
http://www.screencast.com/t/wWehQz05Rsjh


Last edited by Wolfgang on Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Southern Cross



Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 49

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Wolfgang.

Looks like I need placidus.

Greetings,

Southern Cross
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 355

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deborah wrote
Quote:
Graham, part of your translated text reads "we enquire if he himself had recognised it, if he had read something of it in these celestial characters; and I have already taken an affirmative position on this, and I will not unsay myself here".
So it sounds like something had previously been mentioned in the Vie de ... text about this. Could I ask you to look at the text around page 111, to see if there is anything relevant there? (Or a little further back, on p.108, where chiromancy is discussed?)


I'm been away without internet (!) and have only just found this, I'll look at that and translate anything interesting in the next few days.

This is a very interesting thread!

Graham
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 355

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deborah asked about the earlier passage in the 1660 anonymous Life of Morin dealing with his death. Here is the translation of pp. 108-115 (the missing section near the end is just more lengthy pious praise by the author):
Quote:
Ch VIII

As to physiognomy and cheiromancy, although he held astrology in great esteem, he had no difficulty in stating that he placed less trust in its judgments than in those of these other sciences, if given by capable persons. I often heard him report that he had been told most particular things from an inspection of his face and his hands; the most marvellous thing I witnessed in this respect was the extraordinarily precise prediction of his death.

Death predicted from his hand
Having heard one of his friends speak of a certain woman, asserting that the things she had said about the lines of the hand had brought her fame throughout Paris, he was curious to meet her and to speak with her about a science to which he had previously been greatly drawn. He harboured this desire for ten months, and you may surmise from this that the desire was not excessive. However, having one day met the said friend at a dinner, on the 22nd of October of the year 1656, hosted by a person of high standing known both for his merit and capabilities and for his important responsibilities, the affair was raised again, and arrangements made for that evening after dinner. A fourth person present joined the party, and they all climbed into a carriage and went off to see the woman, more out of curiosity to learn more about this science than to find out what would happen to them. Monsieur Morin, whom the others presented as a President of the elected representatives who had been dismissed and wished to know if he would soon be reinstated, showed her his hand. After examining the lines, she told him that the life line was cut, and that he should hasten to deal with his business, and that she saw nothing else in the future except that time was pressing. Monsieur Morin, who was not of a nature to be surprised by her predictions, turned and spoke thus to his friend: "You well know what I told you a long time ago, this year is a very bad one for me, and I am so terribly threatened at the end of this month that I doubt greatly that I can be saved." The cheiromancer nevertheless talked to him about things that had already happened to him; she was pressed to say more about the future but replied that she had nothing more to say. And so they all withdrew, reflecting that it required no great science to tell an old man that he would not live for long. But they were greatly surprised when nine days later they learned that a fever had forced him to take to his bed, and that the doctors thought the worst of his illness, which in six days' time took him to his tomb.

He had himself foreseen his death, for which he was prepared
As he felt himself weakening, and saw that the medicine he was given was making no difference, he deemed that he was approaching the end that the stars had shown so clearly, and of which he had informed several of his friends, in particular Monsieur des Noyers, Secretary of Legal Orders to the Queen of Poland, one of his dearest and closest confidents. His first thought, without having to be reminded, was for the great account he would have to make for his acts, and in order to apply his mind fully to this, he began by dealing with all the superfluity of his worldly affairs, and as riches are the heaviest and most troublesome impediments to a soul which seeks to raise itself up, he first disposed of the goods he had acquired through his work. He set aside a considerable sum for prayers, distributed a portion to his servants and to the poor, and bequeathed the greater part to his niece. He did not forget the two other nieces for whom he had used his savings to enable them to become nuns, but dealt strictly with the son of one of his brothers, leaving him only one hundred ecus, which was not so much a reflection of the legitimate resentment he may have felt in respect of this young man for his bad behaviour, as a means by which he sought to correct him, and also because he doubted for his life, and thought that the inclination against which the law had not seen fit to pronounce absolutely might carry him over to the other side.
Once he had made these resolutions, in which he made no mention of his writings or of his principal books, for he had had these delivered to Monsieur Tronsson, Secretary of the Cabinet of his Majesty, whom he had chosen among his friends to be the executor of his wishes after his death, as he had been privy to his most secret thoughts during his life, he devoted all his remaining moments to the providence of God, conferring often with his ordinary superior confessor of Christian doctrine, a most pious man. After having always by his side his friend Monsieur de Lauberie, a man of the Church of great merit, he turned finally to the Vicar of his parish, who heard his general confession and administered the last two Rites, after which he gave up the ghost at about two o'clock in the morning on Monday the sixth of November of the same year 1656. This happened very peacefully and with sentiments of great piety, which seemed all the more extraordinary to those who had only known him superficially during his life, for they could not believe that a doctor and an astrologer of such reputation could be such a good Christian.
[]
The executor of his testament followed his instructions punctiliously, as can be seen above his sepulchre in the Church of Saint Etienne du Mont, his parish, near the door of the sacristy [St Stephen on the Mount, in the 5th arrondissement of Paris, near the Pantheon].

This is actually really interesting, I think I might try and translate the whole thing when I have time.
Graham


Last edited by Graham F on Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:21 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3438
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is, quite simply, insufficient information about the Life of Morin written in English. I cannot tell you how much this is appreciated. Thank you Graham, and I hope you get as much time as you need for this project.
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: England

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So fascinating, and I am really grateful too Graham. I am also surprised at how little biographical information is available in English, considering how much interest Morin's books still generates, and think this would be a great project for you to work on, if you can find the time for it.

I love the detail in this account - how they were all "reflecting that it required no great science to tell an old man that he would not live for long", and were then surprised when the fever hit just nine days later. Really appreciate you taking the trouble to do this and share it with us here.
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 355

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I misread something when translating the passage about the death prediction, which I have now corrected, to give a correct timeline: Morin visited the cheiromancer on 22nd November, fell ill nine days later (31st), and died SIX (six, not dix = 10) days later, i.e. about 2am on the 6th.

Tom has noted some of the striking configurations involved at death, particularly involving Jupiter (Deborah first looked into this re the close conjunction of Jupiter with Aldebaran at death). Tom:
Quote:
1) The SR ASC is conjunct (within 2 degrees) of the natal 8th house cusp.
2) SR Jupiter, natal Lord 8 ), is a little more than half a degree from being exactly conjunct the natal ASC. Jupiter rules the SR 4th house of endings.
3) SR Moon, ruler of the SR 8th is almost exactly square the natal POF (Not sure he would have cited this as an indicator of death).
4) The SR ASC is conjunct the violent fixed star Antares. He indicated in Book 23 that this star was associated not only with violence, but something unfavorable.
5) SR Mars is conjunct the fixed star Hamal that Robson notes was named "The Death Wound." Ptolemy said it was of the nature of Mars and Saturn. I don't know what, if anything, Morin thought about it.
Quote:
[Using Cardan's method as programmed by Kolev for directing the SR] I note that Jupiter, the ruler of the SR ASC (relocated for Paris) is directed to the conjunction of the IC on November 4, 1656, and SR Mars, his natal ruler of the ASC is also directed to the IC on November 9.

There does seem to be lot of Jupiter. Without reference to fixed stars, I also notice that (relocated Paris, no parallax):
- LR and LR-of-SR Jupiter, and transit Jupiter at illness and death are all partile opposite SR Asc, and partile square SR Sun.
Another striking partile conjunction is Asc /South Node in the LR (to natal).
For Mars and Saturn, whose directions are mentioned at the end of the French text, in transit at death Mars squares SR Venus (transit Sun partile cnj LR-of-SR Venus at death, too). Should the "about 2am" time be correct, in the death chart Mars also trines the transit MC, with transit Asc conjunct natal Saturn. And I'm sure there's much more, but it certainly suggests he got his birth time right, and makes it a useful chart to study.
Graham


Last edited by Graham F on Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Deb
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, pretty convincing and very informative to study - thanks for putting everything together Graham.
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