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Data for Religious Mystics?
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:37 pm    Post subject: Data for Religious Mystics? Reply with quote

I am researching a talk I am giving soon entitled ''Mystics and Magicians and Seers.''

I have gathered more than enough natal data of Occultists, and Psychics as well as Christian and Hindu mystics.

However, I have a paucity of accurate data for noteable Buddhist, Jewish or Islamic teachers (living or dead). Hence my presentation is looking rather unbalanced. There often seems to be no accurate time of birth to work with so the data is usually X Rodden rated. (By the way I do have the Dalai Lama's various possible times before someone suggests that!)

I would appreciate any data anyone has in this area.

Thanks

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark,

i have data without accurate times for them mostly.. do you want that?
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
i have data without accurate times for them mostly.. do you want that?


Hi James,

Ideally I would appreciate AA , A or B but reasonably accurate data seems hard to get in this area. I obviously have the birth dates so no X rated examples please.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Help:RR

Mark
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Mark
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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One quite useful source I have found is the book: Astrology and Spiritual Awakening by Greg Bogart. One limitation of the book though is that Bogart seems almost exclusively focused on Indian/Hindu nativities to illustrate spiritual teachers.

I should also explain that Bogart is very much in the Dane Rudhyar lineage of astrology. So the book may not be to the taste of many traditionalists.

http://www.amazon.com/Astrology-Spiritual-Awakening-Gregory-Bogart/dp/0963906836

Mark
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At present, in India, most spiritual awakening is closely associated with financial upsurge. I was wondering if this rich guru poor guru can be seen in the charts as well.

PD
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Morpheus



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Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the book "Notable Horoscopes" by B.V.Raman. I have used charts mentioned in that book and I am pretty sure that most of the birth data is correct.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morpheus wrote,
Quote:
I have the book "Notable Horoscopes" by B.V.Raman. I have used charts mentioned in that book and I am pretty sure that most of the birth data is correct.


Is B.V. Raman's focus just Indian or International?

I have actually made a fair degree of progress on this topic since I first posted. I actually, never, found too much difficulty finding data for a selection of Indian gurus. The astrological tradition in India no doubt helps!

Although there are a few I have struck out on like Sri Yuteswar.

On the whole though the real challenge has been unearthing data for Sufi or Buddhist teachers. Still, I have found a few. In the case of Buddhism at least I have a solid understanding of many of the important teachers. Its just that accurate data is seldom available for such people. I dont even know where to start on Jewish/Hasidic figures.

Mark
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Morpheus



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Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The focus of B.V.Raman is international. Few examples being
Prophet Muhammad, Prophet Jesus Christ, Shri Krishna etc. Interesting thing is that probably B.V.Raman was the first Indian to engage western astrologers in discussions. He has given detailed reasons and references for the data included in his charts.

The data is in 'Sidereal format' but he has given tables at the end of the book to convert each chart to 'Tropical basis'.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morpheus wrote:
Quote:
Few examples being
Prophet Muhammad, Prophet Jesus Christ, Shri Krishna etc.


I dont mean to offend anyone here. But this is not the kind of data I seek as all these charts are necessarily based on highly speculative data regardless of what the astrologer claims. We cant even agree the year or month of birth for Jesus and Muhammed and many doubt the historical authenticity of Krishna altogether. With the Buddha although the tradition assigns his birth to the full Moon of May there is no consensus on the century he was born let alone he year.

Mark
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Morpheus



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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense taken Smile

Some of the Mystics and their data given in "Notable Horoscopes"

No.13 Guru Nanak
08-11-1470 (O.S) at midnight (L.M.T)
Lat 31.39 N Long 74.47 E (Page 74)


No.14 Sri Chaitanya
18-02-1486 (O.S) 08:56 p.m
Lat 23.23 N Long 88.25 E (Page 79)

No.28 Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
18-02-1836 06:23 a.m
Lat 22.53 N Long 87.44 E (Page 160)

No.32 Sri Narasimha Bharathi
11-03-1858 09:00 p.m (L.M.T)
Lat 13.00 N Long 5 hours 10 minutes 20 seconds (Page 176)

No.36 Sri Swami Vivekananda
12-01-1863 06:33 pm (L.M.T)
Lat 22.40 N Long 88.30 E (Page 192)

No.48 An Example for religiousness and loss of sight
24-03-1883 06:00 am (L.M.T)
Lat 13.00 N Long 77.35 E (Page 258)

No. 57 Swami Sivananada
08-09-1887 04:16 a.m (L.M.T)
Lat 08.48 N Long 77.40 E (Page 306)

No. 63 Meher Baba
25-02-1894 04:30 a.m (L.M.T)
Lat 18.31 N Long 73.52 E (Page 336)
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astralwanderer



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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:36 pm    Post subject: Meher Baba's Chart Reply with quote

Here is Meher Baba's chart. One of the most interesting things about Meher Baba is that he was silent for most of his life, communicating through an alphabet board at first, then through his own unique hand gestures, interpreted for others by an acolyte.



I have had to adjust the time in astroapp to match LMT. This chart matches that from SF at 4:30AM LMT.

Note Baba's powerful Mars exalted in Capricorn in the first place; Saturn exalted in Libra in the tenth. Both positions have high degrees of dignity. Fortune and Spirit are trine the ascendant. Fortune is conjunct Jupiter. Both Jupiter and Fortune are closely conjunct the ecliptic degree of the difficult fixed star Algol.

A comment on sect is appropriate: Baba's chart is nocturnal. This adds further power to Mars, being the nocturnal malefic in a nocturnal chart in the nocturnal hemisphere. Saturn is the diurnal malefic so is out of sect. This is potentially a difficult situation for Saturn. However, it's placement in a diurnal sign, and the sign of its exaltation will ameliorate this.

The Moon is the sect light, being the nocturnal light. Although the moon is in fall, it is not badly placed in the eleventh in the nocturnal hemisphere. It is in a feminine sign in Scorpio. The powerful Mars of course rules the Moon placement. This placement of the Moon is sextile the exalted Mars and trine the Piscean Sun.

The Moon here lends a magnetic, charismatic quality to Baba's chart and may signify the hold he had over groups of people, and the ease with which he was able to spread his message across the world despite remaining silent.

The ruler of Baba's tenth place is Venus which has little dignity in Aquarius, and is peregrine and retrograde. Venus may be somewhat redeemed by being ruled by the dignified Saturn in its sign of Libra. The two are in each other's sign.

Moderns will appreciate PL=SO/NE, of which Ebertin says "Affliction through emotional or physical suffering, an extremely high sensitiveness, a tragic deception or illusion." (From The Combination of Stellar Influences)

Those disposed to consider yods will note that Saturn is at the apex of one of these formations - the Mercury-Jupiter sextile forming the shorter side. The powerful Saturn in the tenth place 'collects' much of the chart through its focus as the midpoint of ME/JU and the NN/MC and MO/MC. Slightly wide of a one degree orb is the SO/NE midpoint.

Saturn as the focus of these midpoints does suggest an inhibition in Baba's relationships with others, and perhaps he expressed this through his silence.

Baba experienced two serious car accidents in the 1950s, the second leaving him quite immobile.
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astralwanderer

your chart is different then the A rating chart at adb found here -
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Meher_Baba%2C_Sri

the chart is based on memory so the angles may indeed be different that what is given here or in the chart you've provided..
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astralwanderer



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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:34 pm    Post subject: Time of Baba's Chart Reply with quote

Hi - I took the time from the previous posting. ADB gives 5:00AM, but it also quotes Jones' Sabian Symbols as giving the same time (Chart 667). This isn't true as the Sabian Symbols' listing gives 4:35AM. That's life! I don't think the 4:35AM time will give much difference apart from the lots. The 5:00AM chart will push the ascendant into Aquarius, as per the ADB listing.

For me there is something quite compelling about the angular Mars and Saturn. Perhaps others might like to consider the 5:00AM option as a way of exploring his chart more fully.

The 5:00AM time is not from Baba himself but "his family and his disciples" - see the ADB entry. It was given to the researcher in 1976, after Baba had died. For an A RR the source should be "From memory (usually the individual's or a parent's); from news reports". In the case of Baba's data, A seems optimistic and C might be more realistic: "Use with caution: original source is not known, or the data have been rectified."
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SGFoxe



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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:29 pm    Post subject: Ba'al Shem Tov Reply with quote

All I know is that he was 17th Century ... with a lot of myths surrounding him, and tales of his predictions and disasters averted. It is family lore that my (maternal) grandmother was a direct matrilineal descendant of the Ba'al Shem Tov ... tho' how that happens I'm not sure, would that mean I was a descendant of his sister, or his mother female sibs (looking to the mitochondria) since the BST would pass his x chromosome & attendant mitochondria directly ... it's probably buried in my chart, like I'm a 7th son type given that I'm a 7th degree of the 7th sign (7 degrees libra sun) in the 7th house ... and guess what, my chart is full of septiles.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGFoxe wrote:
Quote:
All I know is that he was 17th Century ... with a lot of myths surrounding him, and tales of his predictions and disasters averted. It is family lore that my (maternal) grandmother was a direct matrilineal descendant of the Ba'al Shem Tov ... tho' how that happens I'm not sure, would that mean I was a descendant of his sister, or his mother female sibs (looking to the mitochondria) since the BST would pass his x chromosome & attendant mitochondria directly ... it's probably buried in my chart, like I'm a 7th son type given that I'm a 7th degree of the 7th sign (7 degrees libra sun) in the 7th house ... and guess what, my chart is full of septiles.


Ok so you are possibly a distant relative of Ba'al Shem Tov? Its a nice story I grant you but I fail to see what this brings to the table astrologically here? Do you have his timed natal data or that of any Hasidic teachers to offer? I think that would be the kind of contribution that would be especially welcomed in the context of this thread.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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