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Skyscript Astrology Forum

House System Compendium

 
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 944
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:52 pm    Post subject: House System Compendium Reply with quote

I've been researching house systems and adding them to what I hope will be an exhaustive compendium of mathematically unique definitions. I've been studying astrology now for over 40 years and have read roughly 1000 texts on the subject, but have my favorites of course. A few years ago I donated most of my texts to the PHASER library because I was traveling extensively, so I can't check all of the ones that I've read. So far I have 32 house systems accounted for but I'm not sure that they are all mathematically unique because many systems go by alternative names. Please add any that I might have missed, but there's a good chance that your "new" system is really an older system masquerading under a different name. Here is my list so far in alphabetical order:

Abenragel (A-P-C)
Alcabitius (declination hour circles)
Alcabitius (vertical circles)
AM Sidereal Hours
Arcturan
Campanus
Carter's Poli Equatorial
Classical
Equal houses (From ASC)
Equal Sunrise houses (for time unknown)
Gauquelin Sectors
Horizontal (azimuthal) - aka Radiant
Koch
Krusinski-Pisa
MC-Mirror (Levitsky)
Meridian (axis rotation) - aka Zariel
Moon Houses
Morinus
Natural Graduation (derived from Porphyry)
Natural Hours
Neo-Porhyrius
Octopos
Placidus
Porphyrius
Regiomontanus
Sripati (Hindu Bhava)
Solar Houses
Sunshine
Sun Houses (starting cusp from 4th)
Topocentric (Polich Page)
Vehlow equal (Ascendant is placed in the middle of the first house)
Whole Sign (same as Earth Houses but numbering from 0 Libra)

Adding to the problem is that some house systems go by aliases and are not really different house systems at all so if one is not familiar with the mathematics of each system one can get confused. Some of the above entries are from Michael Munkasey's "An Astrological House Formulary". He has 24 systems listed and I'm not completely sure that the above list doesn't have mathematical duplication (aka not a unique house system but the same one under a different name).

I tried to enter all of the entries above into a poll (Which house system do you use?), but the Skyscript forum can't handle that many poll items.
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Curtis Manwaring
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi curtis,

interesting work and thanks for sharing.. your thread seems misplaced in the philosophy and science section, but maybe you could tell me differently! i am trying to be philosophical here, lol..
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking that it is on the "science" side here of this section of the forum. What got me started on this is the claim by Gene_V in the news section that he has 55 systems and that got me thinking about how I could have missed 25 systems in my 40 years of study. So part of this is trying to define what constitutes a "system" and I was thinking that it has to lead to a mathematically unique set of house cusps. But it isn't quite that simple, not just because some are differently named but mathematically the same, but because some are different only because they number the houses differently using the same cusps. What I'm after here is some sort of standard so that there isn't confusion.

When programming these it's important not to duplicate ones work and one can go through a lot of effort for nothing if one doesn't have a set of unique definitions. I think that there are really only about 30 unique systems at most and that others are just duplicates going by another name.
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zoidsoft



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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, it is possible to have a different mathematical definition but arrive at the same house cusps under certain circumstances. I'm thinking that a unique house system should at least give different results part of the time.
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james_m



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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good luck sorting it out curtis!

here is the house system i like.. if there is a name for it, let me know -

i use equal house on my system, but i treat the house cusp as the crest of the wave, falling off in either direction. i like to keep the sign and house connected which is difficult in early or late degree rising charts, but generally i tend to associate a planet in a particular sign as being more connected to the house the sign is associated with.. i don't believe this is necessarily how whole sign or equal house folks use either system, but i could be mistaken. perhaps someone else can chime in.. my house approach might be a personal aberration of my own!
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoidssoft wrote:
Quote:
I've been researching house systems and adding them to what I hope will be an exhaustive compendium of mathematically unique definitions.


Hi Curtis,

If that is your basic criteria for defining a house system then I would question whether about five or six of the systems listed above are really distinct house systems at all. I suppose the question is when we start a chart from a different starting point from the ASC is that a sufficient basis to call it a distinct house system?

Hence should we call a chart derived from the Moon or Sun as found in hellenistic, Indian or Uranian astrology a different house system? Mathematically, we could still be using a system like whole sign, equal or some quadrant system. But then if one is going to object to listing such approaches a system like the Equal MC where the MC is the start of Equal houses rather than the ASC could be questioned too. On the other hand if you accept the logic of using approaches with derived starting points other than the ASC as distinct house systems then surely you should also be listing the Lot of Fortune derived houses as described by Valens?

Interesting to see systems like the Octoposos and Gauquelin Sectors divide which divide up the the chart into different divisions other than 12. Although, as no astrological meaning is attributed to Gauquelin Sectors can these really be be described as authentic astrological houses?

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:35 am; edited 3 times in total
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Curtis,

Here are a few additional systems I have heard discussed.

Firstly, a system called Lavagnini . From what I have read this is a house system based on applying the equal house method in such a way that the Ascendant and Midheaven are integrated at all latitudes. In practical terms I have no idea how this is done! I understand its named after the Italian astrologer Bruno Lavagnini.

As you have listed derived systems starting with the Sun and Moon rather than the ASC another derived approach I think some Uranian astrologers use are 'Draconic houses' derived from the nodes.

Also, there is the Clockwise house system of Jacques Dorsan:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Clockwise-House-System-Foundation/dp/1584200952

Mathematically though you could use whole sign, equal, or any quadrant systems to derive clockwise houses. But the same point applies to many of the derived systems you have listed above.

I propose that apart from the conventional division of houses into categories like ecliptical, time based or space based we perhaps need a new meta division to examine the differing approaches. I would suggest:

1 Mathematically distinct 12 house systems in an anti-clockwise order
2 Derived systems from category 1 using a different starting point than the ASC
3 Systems that divide up the chart into alternatives to the 12 house systems i.e. Octopos or Gauquelin Sectors.
4 A clockwise system counting houses in diurnal order.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:13 am; edited 3 times in total
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
If that is your basic criteria for defining a house system then I would question whether about five or six of the systems listed above are really distinct house systems at all. I suppose the question is when we start a chart from a different starting point from the ASC is that a sufficient basis to call it a distinct house system?


I would say no. My preference would to keep a house system as a principle of division and not an instance of one. Sort of like the difference between a Class and an Object instance in programming.

Also I think you're right that there is some duplication in my original list above. That is what I'm trying to avoid here.
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone know more about this Arcturan system listed above by Curtis?

I have tried google but I keep getting references to UFO Mother ships and alien communication! Is this possibly a duplicate name for another system listed or is this a distinct system?

Mark
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zoidsoft



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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Arcturan system is explained by Michael Munkasey in his book "An Astrological House Formulary":

Quote:
The horizon circle is cut at thirty degree intervals starting at the east point of the horizon,and these points are projected onto the ecliptic using longitude circles.

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astralwanderer



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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject: Arcturan Reply with quote

Hi Curtis - this is an interesting and very helpful piece of work. Ref: the Arcturan system - blast! I thought I'd made this one up a couple of weeks ago! There's nothing new under the sun....

I'm sure the circle/sphere has been divided pretty much every which way by now, but it's interesting to try and think of new systems. Gene V at astroapp has been helpful by programming a couple of systems, the principle being Carter's Poli Equatorial system which has not been offered elsewhere (to my knowledge). I see that it appears in your list of unique approaches.

AM Sidereal Hours is one that Gene kindly programmed for me based on an idea I had to use the AS/MC midpoint as the cusp of the twelfth house. (I'm sure others have had similar ideas.) I was trying to generate a non-quadrant quadrant system, if you see what I mean, given that many quadrant systems become problematic in polar regions.

I was interested to find that the Vehlow system generates a similar point, this time with the midpoint of the nonagesimal (equal 10th house cusp) and ascendant (equal 1st house cusp) being the cusp of the Vehlow twelfth.

A slight variation on this system would be Vehlow-RA, projecting the cusps through the equatorial pole rather than the ecliptic pole. I don't think this has been programmed anywhere, but would be easy to do for any charting system that already offers Vehlow-EC(liptic). I've written a simple BASIC program if anyone is interested in the code (amateur as it is).

All the best. Ed
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astralwanderer



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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:34 pm    Post subject: M-Houses Reply with quote

Hi Curtis - I can't see the M-House system in your list. Perhaps you have considered it and feel that it is not a unique system. It's based on twelve equal divisions of the ecliptic, projected through the poles of the ecliptic, with the tenth house cusp=MC - equal-MC if you like.

Hone and others wrote about it in the 1950s, and published a small booklet on the system. I don't think it has been taken up by others. There's reference to it in Ralph Holden's book on house systems. I apologise if it's in your list under another name.

Ed

(PS - I just noticed Mark referenced it above.)
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