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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Fate and free will (part1)
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Andrew



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 360

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer to approach the three 'traditional' (!) trans-Saturnian planets as divinatory agents (i.e., 'shadow planets' or 'upa-grahas'), given that there are three distinct linkages already present within the traditional paradigm -- [1] Sun-Moon-Saturn (Uranus), [2] Mercury-Jupiter (Neptune), and [3] Venus-Mars (Pluto). In this respect I follow the model proposed by Dane Rudhyar and Michael Meyer, though I adopted this particular scheme independently of them before I ever encountered their ideas. Others will of course have different approaches and different opinions. For me it is very important to draw the line somewhere and the traditional rulership scheme seems to suggest that the line be drawn at three, i.e., no more than three trans-Saturnians (if any at all).

As I have written previously, it seems that ever since the discovery of Chiron, the ephemerides of the asteroids, and the advent of computers and the sighting of ever more asteroids and Kuiper belt objects, it is no longer enough to simply discover just one new planet per century, but to somehow try to incorporate as many 'bodies' as possible into astrology; an untenable situation, from a traditionalist perspective. It also represents an approach to astrology which is no longer *truly* oracular, but primarily informational. That is, if we work with more bodies, will they tell us even more? If we manipulate more objects, can we control even more? I see astrology as being chiefly concerned with wisdom within limits, rather than merely information without limits. I think these are two fundamentally different paradigms. Modern astrology can include as many bodies as it likes because it is oriented mainly toward the post-modern, information age. Traditional astrology cannot, and there are many 'traditionalist' astrologers who hold it anathema to even consider the slightest possibility of using Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto.

It may have been fortuitous, or perhaps even providential, that Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto were discovered when they were. It may be highly symbolically significant that they were discovered when they were. It is very interesting to me that in the textbooks of Victorian and Edwardian astrologers, the asteroids are listed, mentioned, and then passed by, as if they are just so much cosmic detritus.

Uranus, Neptune and Pluto can at least be incorporated within the existing planetary linkages of traditionalist astrology. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto were discovered in 1781 (18th century), 1846 (19th century), and 1930 (20th century), respectively. Their discoveries were separated by 65 and 85 years and they were accompanied by social changes of truly global proportions and implications, all of which are still with us. Comet Chiron was discovered less than fifty years after Pluto, and it was deemed to rule almost everything: the so-called archetype of the 'wounded healer' which, unlike Pluto, did not figure at all in the life, life-changing accident, or death of Christopher Reeve, who if anyone can be said to embody the archetype of the wounded healer, certainly could. And of course the meanings of the asteroids proliferate daily, and now we know what all these Kuiper belt objects mean.

'Take no remedy lightly, take no urging intently, take no separation leniently, beware of no lake and no larder.' (Gertrude Stein)
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Piper



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Everyone,

I wouldn't think of looking for a discussion of Fate and Free Will under the heading of Mundane Astrology and World Events!

Sungem, I hope you don't mind if I transplant this thread where you originally intended (Philosophy and Science), and add my own thoughts to the mix.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5661#5661

KennethM
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Tumbling Sphinx



Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 247

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...moved response to continuation under Philosophy & Science. Very Happy

Last edited by Tumbling Sphinx on Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Piper



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Everyone,

Hope it's okay to continue this discussion where it was originally indended to go, under Philosophy and Science.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5668#5668

Best wishes,
KennethM
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Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kenneth. To help 'tidy up' I'm going to lock this thread, move it to the Philosophy section and keep a shadow copy in the mundane forum, (which I'll delete from that forum eventually).

As Kenneth suggests, please place all new responses in the new thread at
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=879
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