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south node --- and aspects to ASC
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bonfire



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 36
Location: europe

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:26 pm    Post subject: south node --- and aspects to ASC Reply with quote

There are two specific things i come across again and again and i don't really know how to read them.

One is south node - i read some articles about SN, as a sort of malefic, - and i found him recently in 2 charts conjunct the DESC. - both in love-topic-questions. I understood them as bad signs, but i wasn't really sure, does it mean things won't develop, - or is it more that the person described by the DESC is doing not well?
In one chart i had a whole bundle around the DESC -- SN, Uranus, Mars (ruled by Mars/Aries) -- is there a general thing to say about South Node in a horary chart?

The second "miracle" is aspects from main Sgnificators to the ASC, - how is this to be seen? I had a chart last year, i remember, where i had no real positive aspect but a clear trine between a main sign. and ASC, - and it seemed later as if this was the only, but the the right hint to answer the question. - Would you all agree with that? or, again, is there no general rule about aspects with Ascendent?

I'd be happy to learn more about this all!
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Nina Gryphon



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 65
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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bonfire,

There are various ways to approach both the South Node and Ascendant aspects, but I will share my approach to both, and refer you to source materials so you have a starting point for your own research.

South Node: A malefic, right up there with Saturn and Mars in the tradition. As you know, it is not a planetary body, but a point on the ecliptic, so it has no light, and thus no orb, of its own. As a result, it needs to be conjunct something important to really be significant. Here’s what WIlliam Lilly says about it: “I always in my practise found when he was joined with the evil Planets; their malice or the evil intended thereby was doubled and trebled, or extremely augmented…” (Christian Astrology, p. 83)

This recent South Node conjunction with Mars and Uranus has been, as you say, a “bundle” of negativity. If you find it falling on the Descendant in a relationship question, it describes difficulties, separations, and conflict, since these are Mars and Uranus characteristics, amplified by the presence of the South Node.

Some general thoughts: If you find the South Node within a few degrees of a house cusp, especially an angle, sit up and pay attention. It will indicate harm to matters associated with that house. It’s a bit less important if it’s just floating around on its own in the house.

Without seeing the rest of the chart, and knowing the background of your question, it’s hard to say if it means that the relationship won’t develop or that there is something wrong with the person. Sometimes it can mean both! To decide the correct meaning, look at the rest of the chart and see which description the South Node supports.

If I saw the Tail of the Dragon on the quesited house cusp, I would expect “many rubs and disturbances, much wrangling and great controversies, that the business was many times given over for desperate ere a perfection conclusion could be had.” (CA 83) Not an easy time, regardless of the exact cause.

Aspects to the Ascendant: In my experience, having the quesited’s significator aspect the Ascendant from a sextile or trine is a minor positive, though alone it’s not enough to hang our hat on for a favorable judgment. A significator’s conjunction with the Ascendant is stronger, as it shows the quesited coming to you or entering your zone of influence and can decide a judgment all by itself. But, you asked about a trine.

In my close reading of traditional sources, there are special cases where an aspect to an Ascendant is cited as sufficient testimony. But these do seem to be isolated uses: 99% of favorable testimonies occur between planets or at least a conjunction to a house cusp.

One example in Christian Astrology is the finding of lost or stolen objects or “strayed beasts”: when the Moon’s sign ruler forms a sextile to the Ascendant, there is hope of finding the object or beast when the aspect becomes exact (CA 320). it’s not often that we use the aspect to the Ascendant as our main testimony.

Feel free to share your chart here and who knows; maybe we’ll find other testimonies of perfection Smile

Best regards,
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bonfire



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
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Location: europe

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for replying Ninotchka7 ! - A lot of what you say confirms my ideas, so i am happy to have been not completely wrong. -
For the SN conjunct DESC, - would you say everything within 3 degrees counts as conjunction? Or should it be on the exact same degree?

And then, i struggle with what north node means in the puzzle?
I can see (and defined it as that) that the relationship my friend asked about was in trouble - but the NN on the ASC... I understood that my friend was in good shape in a way, was developing althought he quesited and the relationship were somehow in not good shape. (in fact the girl was betraying him, and so she felt the opposite of what my friend was hoping for).

Would you read NN on ASC the same way?
(Mars, the girl's significator was opposite the ASC, and so was Uranus.)
So, many signs for to see that the relationship was struggeling, - but moon in the 1st house and NN on the ASC looked for me as a comfort. And in fact my friend was doing fine, even after he separated from the girl.

-- I am very grateful for your advise and opinion and for sharing your knowledge! Thanks again!
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Nina Gryphon



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi bonfire,

The conjunction of the Nodes is a matter of some debate, since they themselves have no light and thus lack an orb. I personally think three degrees is reasonable.

So, of course the nodes are always opposite each other; if your friend has the Dragon's Head on the Ascendant and Dragon's Tail on the Descendant showing problems with the partner, which is the more important one in the situation? It sounds like in this question, both were relevant: the querent ended up doing all right, AND the partner was in trouble. Again, you will have to review the rest of the chart to see if one or both of these interpretations are supported in any given question.

Kind regards,
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote an article about this in early 2010:

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/evolutionary-astro.html
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Nina Gryphon



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lovely article, Curtis, thank you.

Curtis's conclusion applied to the querent's example, the North Node is what is coming into the life and the South Node is what is exiting. So, the querent increases (in well-being, happiness) while the presence of the significant other decreases; a sign of things to come.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:29 am    Post subject: Re: south node --- and aspects to ASC Reply with quote

bonfire wrote:
There are two specific things i come across again and again and i don't really know how to read them.

One is south node - i read some articles about SN, as a sort of malefic, - and i found him recently in 2 charts conjunct the DESC. - both in love-topic-questions. I understood them as bad signs, but i wasn't really sure, does it mean things won't develop, - or is it more that the person described by the DESC is doing not well?
In one chart i had a whole bundle around the DESC -- SN, Uranus, Mars (ruled by Mars/Aries) -- is there a general thing to say about South Node in a horary chart?

The second "miracle" is aspects from main Sgnificators to the ASC, - how is this to be seen? I had a chart last year, i remember, where i had no real positive aspect but a clear trine between a main sign. and ASC, - and it seemed later as if this was the only, but the the right hint to answer the question. - Would you all agree with that? or, again, is there no general rule about aspects with Ascendent?

I'd be happy to learn more about this all!


I am not sure of the aspects of SN but if there is a conjnuction with a house in question-

The presumption about the quesited was wrong- whatever it was.
If it was your friend- the promise of help will be hollow and if an enemy, the boast will be empty- not necessarily intentional.
Think of it as a big hollow- like someone taking a group out for the meals but forgetting the wallet at home or exceeded the credit limit on the card.

PD

the chart as in bonfire's later post:



Last edited by pankajdubey on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jupiterhead



Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 528

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One cannot simply say the nodes are good or bad in a chart. All depends on the dignity of their lord.
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Nina Gryphon



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have the reference handy, but I have seen references in traditional authors who treat Cauda as a pit. Pankaj Dubey is on the right track here.

Saturnhead - that is different. Citation, please?
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bonfire



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
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Location: europe

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many interesting comments! Thank you all a lot!

Zoidsoft, - thanks for the deep insight your article offers! - I have to take some extra time and read it slowly and with open senses! I shall do so over the weekend! I just had alook today and found it absolutely hitting the nail!
Thanks!

Nina Gryphon, i'd love to post the chart here, - just, i somehow failed with tinypics, it doesn't work the last days, i was doing fine before but cannot load up right now for what ever reason. - and i am in studio all day long, doing recordings, so i have no real time to fumble around with technic. - Again, i will try over the weekend. I'd surely love to hear your opinion about it.
But thank you anyway for your shared thoughts!

pankajdubey, - you put it all very clearly in words! That is more or less what happened to my friend. all he had seen in this woman fell apart, and seemed to be a lie.

--- You are all indeed of great inspiration and help for me!! Thank you!!
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bonfire



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 36
Location: europe

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....
i used chrome instead of mozilla, and here it is:

http://i61.tinypic.com/1qik5y.gif

i hope this makes things a bit more clear.

He asked: does she love me so we can continue?

At this point he had no idea that she was having an affair with another man,
and even had a fling with a third one. She had then been very cold with him, which somehow made it easier for him to turn away from her.
They had been a couple for 6 years.
They separated 8 days after the chart was made, and it was all from her side. she completely cut off contact. - but as i said, he is doing astonishingly fine.
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Nina Gryphon



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Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, bonfire, that relationship...well, it isn't. Mars in Aries is just very happy in his own house and sign there, isn't he? I imagine it would be difficult to engage that person.

Looking at the chart as a whole, we are reminded that the Nodes tend to add to a judgment, but don't decide the judgment all on their own. The planetary significators here speak volumes about the dynamic of this situation. I imagine it was very stressful for the querent.
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bonfire



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
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Location: europe

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...yes it indeed has been a tough time, but more the weeks before my friend came to me to ask this question.
Maybe he had come clear inside during those weeks and the chart was just the moment when he was courageous enough to put it all on the table.

I agree, of course, the planets alone tell a lot here. One wouldn't need the nodes. - But since i had a few charts with the SN on the DESC it pulled my attention. -
Just as we speak about it, . how would you read moon in the 1st house? I heard people saying it's a self-focussed process. So it could be compared to Mars in the 7th here? And maybe another indicator why my friend can cope with all this quite well?
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astrojunkie



Joined: 07 Nov 2014
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:05 am    Post subject: SN Reply with quote

South Node (Ketu in Vedic) is always 150 degrees apart from North Node. So Whichever house North Node is in SN will be in that house which is directly opposite to NN. SN in Vedic is a headless object , malefic but should seen as a call for spirituality. As headless man is directionless SN also dont have specific routes and always in (R). Wherever this planet sits , there will be a reason for concern and for the happy ending you need more perseverence and faith to accomplish the dream. That is my knowledge about SN
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Breeze



Joined: 16 Oct 2016
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello forum,

I think, NN is not always suggesting a happy ending/event, but sometimes a non avoidable/ fateful event as Anthony Louis says in his book Horary Astrology, plus some unknown factors as pankujdabey suggests in moonbright's below link;

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9423

I wld. Like to share a chart of mine here which I think it wld. Be a good example of NN/SN.



It is a love chart dated June 2016 .
The question is " Where are we heading ? "
Main significator Jupiter (me) conjucts NN in 9th. and Moon ( my co-sign ) will be conjucting SN in 3rd.
As clearly seen on the chart, the outcome is "we are not heading anywhere"

And yes, we did not go anywhere. Actually it has been confirmed by another chart I erected months after this 1st one that there is no chance we can go anywere due to a reason at his end,

I think it wld. be an accurute prediction to say that;
as Mercury being the dispositor of True Node, this chart actually told me that there is some non-avoidable and/or some unknown factors at Mercury's side for us not to have a love relationship.

And then SN took place by conjuction of Moon so that all Mars effect and Uranus nature came into the picture i.e. all that heart break, and rough times at my end.

What wld. You say friends ? Did NN/ SN work that way ?

Cheers
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