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Multiple angular planets-example
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astrocorreia



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
Posts: 87

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:09 pm    Post subject: Multiple angular planets-example Reply with quote

Hello all,

Some people wonder about what`s the best way to handle a chart with several angular planets. They look at dignity and rulerships amongst other things.
Here`s an example by French astrologer Andre Barbault,whose main inspiration is Morinus.


http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Robespierre%2C_Maximilien

Robespierre was born with several angular planets.
Saturn was rising making him an introvert man of ideas.He was often seen looking down to the floor in reflection as he walked the streets.

But without Júpiter at MC he wouldn`t have left little Arras and move to Paris to enter the world of politics. And once he achieved power he showed the tyrannical, radical side of his Mars angular in 7th.
So it appears that the influence of diferent angular planets peaks at diferent periods of one`s life,depending on circumstances,rather than having only one clear dominant.

The lights are important in all matters though. If you look at health it is best to look at Sun,Moon and ascendant first and then at 6th-12th houses axis. And the same for other issues.
The book by Raphael in the online texts links of this site seems to support the idea as well. It was written in 1837,so he is neither a modern nor a die hard follower of the antiquity.
It would be interesting to look at other historical case studies who have planets in all angles. I like the clear logic of Barbault but I prefer not to rely on only a few case studies
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a great example chart that was given to me by an astrologer years ago. I spent the better part of the last hour trying to find it to no avail. I'll tell you what I recall of it, but it is pretty general.

The native was not famous, and I wasn't given his name, not that it would have mattered. He was male. The chart had Cancer rising and Aries on the MC, so all four angles were cardinal. As I recall he had every planet, including the outer three or nearly every planet in an angular house and angular sign.

Most importantly the Moon, lady of the ASC was in the 7th house. He didn't merely love women, he was obsessed with them. He was one of those guys who always stood too close when talking to someone, particularly a woman. If she stepped back, he would step forward. He was overwhelming, to say the least and he scared off the objects of his affection. Any woman that would go out with him didn't do it more than once or twice. He was just too, too much.

So what does one do when the objects of one's desire refuse to have anything to do with one? The answer is simplicity in itself. He kidnapped a few and kept them, much against their will, chained up in his basement. He was caught, and the women were released, frightened, but physically unharmed, if I recall this correctly. He was shipped to the appropriate mental institution.

The point seemed to be that this guy was overloaded with cardinal energy and it manifested in an extreme and dangerous way. I will do my best to find the chart, and post it if I can find it.
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astrocorreia



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
I had a great example chart that was given to me by an astrologer years ago. I spent the better part of the last hour trying to find it to no avail. I'll tell you what I recall of it, but it is pretty general.

The native was not famous, and I wasn't given his name, not that it would have mattered. He was male. The chart had Cancer rising and Aries on the MC, so all four angles were cardinal. As I recall he had every planet, including the outer three or nearly every planet in an angular house and angular sign.

Most importantly the Moon, lady of the ASC was in the 7th house. He didn't merely love women, he was obsessed with them. He was one of those guys who always stood too close when talking to someone, particularly a woman. If she stepped back, he would step forward. He was overwhelming, to say the least and he scared off the objects of his affection. Any woman that would go out with him didn't do it more than once or twice. He was just too, too much.

So what does one do when the objects of one's desire refuse to have anything to do with one? The answer is simplicity in itself. He kidnapped a few and kept them, much against their will, chained up in his basement. He was caught, and the women were released, frightened, but physically unharmed, if I recall this correctly. He was shipped to the appropriate mental institution.

The point seemed to be that this guy was overloaded with cardinal energy and it manifested in an extreme and dangerous way. I will do my best to find the chart, and post it if I can find it.


Thanks Tom

Sounds like Josef Fritzl or someone like him Very Happy
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Multiple angular planets-example Reply with quote

hi astrocorreia,

interesting conjectures on your part and an interesting example regarding multiple angular planets. welcome to skyscript!

astrocorreia wrote:

So it appears that the influence of different angular planets peaks at different periods of one`s life, depending on circumstances, rather than having only one clear dominant.


i agree with your viewpoint here. as a matter of fact, in spite of the idea of angular planets having more prominence, i think it is impossible to discount all the other planets and the role they play in shaping the overall person and chart as well...

i would see mars in the area of the descendant as someone having some powerful enemies and, aside from how robespierre interacted with others, i don't believe he would have met without much opposition to the ideas and actions he wanted to set in motion. i think this is doubly so given the sun/mars square in his chart as well.. he is described as extremely idealistic. i think this is in keeping with a fixed sign rising and perhaps saturn in pisces in the vicinity of the ascendant as well. that and having a mars/jupiter trine on the ascendant/midheaven angles would seem to cement the idea of his idealism being expressed directly in some context where it could make a difference. perhaps this fire trine between mars/jupiter more then anything else represent the search for freedom and greater egalitarianism that seems to describe the focus of his idealism.

at the time of his death, if the time is fairly close, i note the t square between saturn and uranus and pluto on the ascendant axis, while jupiter is making a return to it's natal position. the forces at work here would seem to highlight robespierre's pivotal role at this juncture in history..
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Tom
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Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



I could not find the chart I referred to above, but this one was given to me by a practicing astrologer. The woman is not famous, so looking up her birth data is a waste of time. Everything but Pluto and Neptune are angular.

Do you want me to tell you about her or would anyone like to offer some general observations? And general observations are all that I have.

Let me know.
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Mjacob



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Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that her moon is subject to some form of mixed besiegement by an Mundo square of Mars and saturn in next sign and this spoils her chance of fame in the kingdom as does North node in the ninth but it has been a long day partying so I cannot comment further
Matthew
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the little challenge tom!

what i've found with cancer rising folks is how important there connection to their family and mom are.. the connection to the mom is typically quite important and significant and i would say this is doubly so given the close conjunction of the moon on the midheaven in aries.. i have little to base this on, but moon in aries suggests an independent emotional nature - perhaps reflected in the actual mom - and some sort of relationship where perhaps this women lived with only her mom and was cut off from her father.. not sure why i say this.. at any rate, since there is such an emphasis in the 4th house, including the proximity of uranus/pluto midpointing onto the i.c. and the greater emphasis on uranus due it's closer opposition to the moon - all i say about the mom being independent and unorthodox as well with the uranian bent is likely and... she may be especially drawn to studying her family history and heritage even if she has no contact with her father or any possible siblings she may or may not have gotten to know. and i am going to have to learn how to write proper sentences one day, lol..


i suspect she is not married, but might have one child of her own that requires special attention if so.. that might be her actual relationship partner too.. in trying to figure out the jupiter/mars square - maybe i have it all wrong on her relationships, but there is something about expending too much energy in a dissipating and unproductive way here that doesn't end with positive results.. my take.. mars in cap while positive in itself is more of a challenging energy on the descendant.. it looks like 19 degree axis with mars very close to the descendant.. i am especially curious about her life on the relationship front..
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks James

Two points. I had the same inkling about the mother because Moon has a strong analogy with the mother and it is in the house of the mother, and it is the ruler of the ASC. Furthermore Moon is disposited by a powerful Mars with which it is in a mundane square and that Mars, of course, opposes the ASC. The problem is I don't know if that's true or not.

2) What I do know is far more general than that. The astrologer whose client this is, used a really good metaphor to describe her and I don't think I would have thought of the words he used, but they fit perfectly. In order to figure out what it could be, look at this chart, and think of astrology at its most basic; think of the seasons.
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks tom,

well when i think of all the cardinal planets with cancer, another cardinal sign rising - i think of a lot of action and energy. only 2 planets in the fixed signs and 1 in mutable suggest a lot of energy, perhaps with less focus and reflection to go with it.. the fact there is a huge cluster or stellium in libra puts a big emphasis on libra - relating to others - specifically family given the 4th house emphasis.. she would be a good realtor, or person involved with some home based business - home reno's or something like that.. so i suppose - huge amount of energy, not particularly focused in any specific direction might be how i would tie it to the seasons..
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Mjacob



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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Libra is start of Autumn (sorry fall) and is melancholy but melancholy Mercury is cuddled by the benefics so she is happy when miserable?
Matthew
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
huge amount of energy, not particularly focused in any specific direction


Right church, wrong pew.

Quote:
so she is happy when miserable?


I don't know, but the temperament is kind of balanced. Mars in Capricorn might be a good choice for significator of the manners, though
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Mjacob



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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Angular Mars dignified in house of Saturn Cardinal means work with others and gets things done. Airial Mer with benefics intelligent but Moon in house of Mars in MC in trouble by association with evil people
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me explain the "seasons" reference a little better, first. We all know astrology is based on the seasons. What I meant was to first establish what is meant by that and second to apply it, broadly, to this chart.

Each three month season of the year is cardinal, fixed and mutable. Cardinal pushes out the old season and replaces it with the new. Fixed maintains the season. Mutable is mostly the same as fixed but it's beginning to become like the next. But mutable isn't initiating the change; it's just kind of happening.

Which of those three, if any, dominates the chart and, if one dominates is that domination, slight, middling, or powerful? Temperament is one way to do this, but it doesn't seem to work as well in this chart. Use your powers of observation.

James almost had it, but slipped slightly in the description, but upon reflection, only slightly in that he stopped just before he got in the door.

Another hint. We're all Freudian whether we want to be or not so we instantly (and I did this when I first looked at the chart without any knowledge of the native at all other than gender) look at the Moon and think "Mom." That might work in most cases and it might even work in this one; I don't know. Since we don't know, is there another way to look at the lunar placement, i.e. something other than mother? What else could Moon in 10 in a cardinal sign mean? Don't be too specific. Don't narrow it down to a specific incident, event, or person. If I showed you this chart, with only the Moon in Aries in 10 - no other planets anywhere _ and asked you to tell me something and you can't tell me about the mother, what would you tell me? Don't over-complicate and don't be too specific. I have probably written more words giving hints than I will when I tell you what I know about the native. Go easy on yourselves.
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Mjacob



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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She is an army officer maybe but will keep looking
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
She is an army officer maybe but will keep looking


Too specific. I'm not looking for a specific career. Let's say she is an army officer. The chart won't say that. The chart might say (and I'm making this up off the top of my head so don't apply it to the chart under discussion), assertive, organized, methodical, ambitious, competitive. Yes those are the qualities of an army officer, but they are also the qualities of a professional athlete, a business executive, or a young priest trying to establish himself at the Vatican, a top notch student, etc I'm looking for the description, not end result.
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