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Multiple angular planets-example
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clearly i am not getting work done but enjoying this!

moon in aries is good at starting things, but one will have to look to another part of the chart to see some follow thru possibilities..

in this chart the heavy emphasis on relating is suggested by libra/air - probably in some mothering kinda way given cancer rising, 4th house emphasis and moon on the midheaven.. one simple idea is that she starts countless relationships, but doesn't know how to hold onto them or make them more permanent.. nothing wrong with any of this either, especially if you are some sheik from saudi arabia living in a polygamous culture..

the fact saturn is in opposition to natal sun, implies a more challenging dynamic on the relationship front as i see it. they don't come easy, possible fear connected to a deeper relationship and sometimes fate preventing the sun's goals until more work and conscious effort has been put into this...that's true too given saturn rules the 7th here.. the fact that moon is the planet in the sign opposite the libra stellium suggests the possibility of more relationships with women or feminine energy. that is why i was thinking maybe some special relationship to her mom.. this is also strengthened by the fact saturn and moon are in opposition to this libra stellium - older women might be a theme in terms of relationships..

bottom line is lots of energy expended in the area where the libra stellium is... the other astro factors like mars in the 7th, while saturn opposite sun, and moon opposite the libra planets seems to suggest more of the same - heavy focus on relationships and relating a particular way..
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Cédric



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see a dichotomy between an urge to express in one hand and a very controlled-repressed person on the other hand (cardinal-autumn compound and the web of contrary dispositions driving the planets).
Is she filling a big cistern of emotions because she’s controlling them with an iron fist, not allowing their expression in public? With the eruption yet to come because the increasing pressure will cause some failure? I fear the square of Mars soon to be directed to her moon (if it didn’t already happen not long ago—I can’t tell; I just eyeballed it).
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The astrologer who gave this to me hasn't seen or heard from this woman in several years. So we have no way of knowing what if anything happened at the time of a direction or progression.

Quote:
Is she filling a big cistern of emotions because she’s controlling them with an iron fist,


Did you study with Noel Tyl?

Quote:
I see a dichotomy between an urge to express in one hand and a very controlled-repressed person on the other hand


Repression is not her problem
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Mjacob



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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a luminary in the tenth she is not shy. Moon is an immature woman or girl and spring is sign of youth but in male sign so out sect. Mars aspect makes her a bad tempered egotistical kid
Matthew
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Cédric



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Tom.
I didn’t. Do I sound like him?
By repression I rather meant a control, keeping a socially acceptable persona. As she seems to me someone driven–with “a lot of action and energy” as James put it–I thought the two would not inhabit peacefully, hence an impending outbreak.

To focus back on the cardinality, she looks like someone who starts a lot of things but who doesn’t carry on with them. Metaphorically, an “annual grown” (just one cycle and it is over)?
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I didn’t. Do I sound like him?


Noel encourages his students to use metaphors in delineation. He would have loved that one.

I'm going to let this go for a few more hours and then toss in what I know, and what the astrologer told me. Come to think of it, his description might have pleased Noel, too.

Later
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

]To recap: I was looking for a chart that I believed was appropriate for the original inquiry, couldn't find it and was given this one. I believe I found the original one I sought and it isn't exactly as I recalled, but if it is appropriate, I’ll post that soon.

This chart as I said, belongs to a woman who is not famous or infamous. If I knew her name, it would mean nothing to me, or to anyone reading this. The astrologer gave it to me as an example of “an extreme chart.” “Look at it and tell me what you think.” I received his message as I was running out the door, glanced at it and noted that ruler of the first was in the 10th indicating some kind of recognition coming to the native. I dashed off the note and he instantly replied, “This is an extreme chart.” It is.

The woman could not hold a job or have any kind of sexual relationship that lasted for any length of time. The astrologer described her as “A force of nature.” Her personality is so strong and so overwhelming that no one could stand her. No employer could put up with her refusal to do anything, but her way on her terms no exceptions. Ditto men. The only men she who stayed with her for any time were timid creatures who would not stand up to her, and she was even too much for them. Out of unhappiness and frustration she sought out the astrologer and after looking at her chart told her; “I can’t help you.” We’ll go back to the interview later. Let’s look at the chart and some comments.

Cancer is on the ASC. Cancer, by itself can be overwhelming, but it’s more than just Cancer. The rulers of three of the 4 angles are in cardinal signs and angular houses: Moon in Aries. Mars in Capricorn, Venus in Libra. Saturn, Lord 7 is in Taurus but in the 10th house. In addition Sun, Mercury, and Jupiter are all in Cardinal Libra in an angular house. The Moon, lady of the ASC, is not only angular, and conjunct the MC, but disposited by a powerful Mars exalted in Capricorn. The Moon is also in the 2nd quarter, choleric.

I suggested paying attention to the seasons for a broad description. Cardinal signs used to be called “changeable” because they signified the change of seasons. But as I also mentioned, cardinal signs push the old season out. This woman pushes, and pushes, and pushes and does not stop pushing to the point where no one can stand it. This is why the astrologer described her as a force of nature. Change comes about by the force of her personality like it or not. No one liked it.

Humans tend to be very social, and like all humans she wanted friends, lovers, work, etc, so by the time she went to the astrologer, she was miserable: no job, no love prospects, and no money. When he told her “I can’t help you,” she broke down. But he did help her.

He told her that given her personality, she should be in business for herself, and she had to work on demanding all her own way all the time in social interactions. She took his advice and the last he heard she was successful in her own business, but no marriage, yet. She was a lot happier. All businesses at some point have to depend on a certain amount of good will to survive. She is probably learning from that, too.

I like this story because the astrologer latched on to the most obvious condition in the chart, overwhelming cardinality, and that was most if not nearly all that he worked on with her. He didn't feel it was necessary to get in to the minutiae or her childhood, her mother, father, etc. He applied the chart to the immediate problem, quite skillfully I thought, and bore right in in order to make her receptive to what he had to say. That’s probably what it took, too. As we see it was not in her nature to listen to others, so he got her to listen the only way he could.

When James wrote: “Huge amount of energy, not particularly focused in any specific direction…” He almost had it. Her energy was focused, but in every direction. She aimed it at everyone and everything. It wasn't scattered, as the sentence implies, it was all encompassing, like a hurricane or a flood – a force of nature.

There is, I'm sure, a lot more in this chart. I was looking for a broad description like “force of nature,” or “overwhelming,” or “overpowering,” and then cite all the cardinality of the chart. This is the sort of thing Noel Tyl teaches: get a feel for the chart as a whole and then describe it in a few words. That is a lot easier said than done. I didn't catch that on my own. Still it is a technique to remember and try.
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astrocorreia



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But of course Asc ruler Moon in Aries,Mars angular.Indeed a force of nature but Moon in 10th brings ups and downs in career.Very changeable Tom
And dont Forget Moon Uranus opposition-a real storm. Uranus at IC can bring a disruptive life.I think the opposition is the key to her job difficulties
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astrocorreia



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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we`re talking about angular planets- Im having some difficulty connecting to internet.
Júpiter is currently on my IC.I moved south for professional reasons and am living in a suite of a former Hotel,with swimming pool,large corridors where I can jog(reminds me of The Shining) and alone.
You can`t get more Júpiter IC than this.
It is opposite my natal Júpiter MC. The hotel is farther from work than i expected(50 min walk)
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but Moon in 10th brings ups and downs in career.Very changeable Tom


I wrote that, but when I looked it's not there. I must have accidentally edited that out, when I made a change and didn't see it. Yes the Moon represents change and is in a changeable sign on the MC = difficulty holding a job or many changes in career. Disposed by Mars I'd think the former.

In a previous post I wrote this:


Quote:
Don't narrow it down to a specific incident, event, or person. If I showed you this chart, with only the Moon in Aries in 10 - no other planets anywhere _ and asked you to tell me something and you can't tell me about the mother, what would you tell me?


Changing jobs frequently was what I had in mind

I rarely use the outer planets and at more than 4 degrees the Moon-Uranus opposition didn't jump out at me. Uranus is also almost 6 degrees from the IC, so I didn't pay any attention. The Moon does the job nicely especially as ruler of the ASC.
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astrocorreia



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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Tom didn`t realize this was some kind of mistery chart.Anyway her chart is telling.My sole surprise is herlack of professional success
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi tom,

thanks for giving a bigger overview on what was known of the women who connected to this chart. i have noticed uranus in the 4 sometimes connects with an unstable home life and life in general.. in this chart the 2 outer planets pluto and uranus midpointing onto the midheaven axis and involved in the ruler of the ascendant - moon - suggested the same to me.. thanks for presenting the chart here..
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Mjacob



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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad she did not follow my advice and become an army officer. Imagine serving in her platoon Shocked
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sorry Tom didnt realize this was some kind of mystery chart.Anyway her chart is telling.My sole surprise is her lack of professional success

Nah. I just wanted to get some feedback from people who didn't know anything about the individual. That is always the most difficult task. Supposedly she did enjoy some, or perhaps a great deal of professional success when she started to work for herself - obviously the only way someone like this could succeed in business.

I'm not discounting the outer three. I just don't use them all that often. If the opposition was really tight and/or Uranus was on the cusp of the 4th, I would have paid attention. And keep in mind, none of this is a full blown delineation. Just an overview.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we're talking about angular planets:

If this extreme woman’s chart is set up by equal house, two angular planets in close aspect to the ascendant pop right at at us: Mars on the descendant square Jupiter on the nadir. (In the sidereal zodiac since Gemini rises, ascendant lord Mercury conjunct Jupiter ties in with this configuration, and both Jupiter and Mars are in terms of Mars.)

Turning to what is still one of the best sources for the psychology of aspects, Charles Carter (The Astrological Aspects, p . 123-134) writes of the inharmonious Jupiter-Mars aspects:

“This is a combination that commonly signifies lack of true temperance...there may be extremist tendencies (in politics)....The effects on the health are likely to be through over-strain, over-excitement, over-enthusiasm...”

American tropical writer and psychic, Isabel Hickey (Astrology, A Cosmic Science, p. 225), is even more to the point:

Mars square Jupiter:
“Energies (Mars) work against opportunities and judgement (Jupiter). Seems forceful and aggressive and wants success but often works against the self in an unrecognized way causing defeat....The go-after-it type of personality. Doesn’t know when to quit and drives past the point of success. Brash, confident and irritating to the other fellow, so doors close that could have been beneficial openings. Anyone with this conflict needs to evaluate and examine material motives, reasons behind excess, and how much defeat is due to self other than others...”

Charles Carter’s book was first published in 1930 and revised in 1951. Isabel Hickey’s book was first published in 1970. Both of these older books are still superb aspect references for both tropical and sidereal astrologers. I don’t know about others, but I personally can’t describe the effects of aspects any better than these two authors did many years ago, long before the advent of personal computers which allow the fast-and-easy writing that appears in today’s publications.
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