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UK General Election May 7th 2015
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JoakimS



Joined: 02 May 2010
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Location: Jihlava, CZ

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
This time I hope we can get better data than we did for Milliband, whose chart in astro-database is surely wrong, since it adds an hour for daylight saving in December, whereas according to the time and date website, this was ended on 27 October 1968, and was not employed again until 1972.
http://www.timeanddate.com/time/change/uk/london?year=1969

Sorry to say Deb, but I think you read the data at timeanddate.com wrongly. On 18 Feb 1968 at 02:00 time changed so 1 hour was added (DST start) to GMT and this extra hour then stayed until 31 Oct 1971 at 03:00 when clocks were set back 1 hour to GMT.

So astro-database is correct in that case, however the time given may still be wrong but I have not studied red's appearance or seen him in action enough to be absolutely sure he doesn't have Taurus rising. We have to remember that arranged pictures often are "beautified" and they get a make-up before appearing on television.
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Mark
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
Quote:
Not so very long ago, we all had our own reference books to check these sorts of details whilst calculating charts. Now we seem reduced to relying on what websites report. I'd imagine that the Wikipedia report is more reliable here.


Even though this particular data question seems settled you raise an important point. Nowadays astrologers rely on software to calculate our charts. We accept things like daylight saving are naturally correct. Still programmers can make the odd mistake too. We should be vigilant on such issues. I had almost largely forgotten about the daylight changes made during this period. But you have reminded me about those extremely dark winter mornings in Scotland as a schoolchild!

Mark
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Deb
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi JoakimS - yes I completely accept that point now, which is why I said the Wikipedia report seems correct. I found the TimeandDate site info very confusing, but I am relieved to be reassured that their details are not inaccurate, just badly reported.
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joakim
The question of Ed Miliband and his appearance did come up here around the 9th April on this thread but I appreciate that you would rather decide for yourself
Matthew
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:


Thanks. I suppose if that T-square of Jupiter opposition Saturn square Neptune's antiscion also had Neptune's antiscion conjunct the Midheaven, you would have had a more effective, powerful and charismatic leader?


I confess that I am rusty on outer planets and am not yet confident on antiscions. I am a bit generous in assigning angularity to planets though and that is one reason why I did not question the chart as first offered for we have Mercury in the 10th and Saturn, whilst more than five degrees from the ASC it still looks close enough as does the Moon to the 4th cusp.

I do not follow his politics but he is a man who took charge of a major political party and to come second in election is way ahead of 60 million others who just voted. it would not have happened to someone with succedent planets.
Saturn may make him look geeky but judge not by the outer raiment or whatever the good book tells us

Matthew
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james_m



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is nothing charismatic about saturn rising, lol.. i haven't seen milibrand - picture or on tv or any format, that i am aware of - but if saturn is in the vicinity of his ascendant it is very unlikely he has much of any charisma! saturn has more of a dour look to it.. saturn in taurus rising sounds like someone who might look like they have constipation, lol.. surely not charisma, lol..
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not recall using the word charisma. Kindly point to the part of his chart that says that he is not or at least was not the leader of the second largest political party in the UK
Thanks

And remember Ted Bovis in Hi di hi. The first rule of comedy is that you must have reality Very Happy
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry James but the subject is a sore one in this context. I tried to open a thread on Miliband and his chart and had little response apart from a moderator saying that natal astrology could not be discussed in the traditional forum unless it was in a boring technical manner. Zzzzzxz
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In any case the Gemini rising chart was withdrawn because it was wrong so we are stuck with Taurus but the criteria for any kind of public image is a tenth house matter rather than a sign issue I would humbly suggest
Matthew
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Fleur



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Miliband's chart with Taurus rising
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Miliband,_Ed
Saturn is in the Gauquelin zone behind the Ascendant, which is supposed to be even stronger for career and worldly manifestation than if it were exactly conjunct the Ascendant.

This Saturn is opposition Jupiter and square Neptune's antiscion. Yet it seems Saturn dominates.
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Fleur



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mjacob wrote:
In any case the Gemini rising chart was withdrawn because it was wrong so we are stuck with Taurus but the criteria for any kind of public image is a tenth house matter rather than a sign issue I would humbly suggest
Matthew


Wouldn't public image and worldly manifestation be a matter of all the chart angles? (And according to Gauquelin, it is the areas behind the chart angles that are most powerful in this respect).
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point Fleur. As you may gather I lean toward the traditional approach but for me I heard about Gauquelin long before I heard about Ptolemy and his five degree rule. The Saturn opposition is a stand out to me rather than Neptune I have to say
Matthew
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Mark
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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mcajob wrote:
Quote:
Good point Fleur. As you may gather I lean toward the traditional approach but for me I heard about Gauquelin long before I heard about Ptolemy and his five degree rule. The Saturn opposition is a stand out to me rather than Neptune I have to say
Matthew


I confess I may be biased on the subject of house placement but to me at least using WS houses Saturn operates as a first house planet in this chart. Mind you using a medieval orb it is conjunct the ASC if you see it in the 12th.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Sun May 10, 2015 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi matthew. i'm sorry. i was just responding to that one word and running with it in relation to the possibility of miliband having taurus or gemini rising. i have always made an association with the ascendant and appearance. of course it is modified by planets rising and planets in other angles too, but overall i go with a planet in the ascendant, or making a hard aspect to the ascendant as having more bearing on appearance. i suppose this means i think that any planet aspecting the ascendant modifies the appearance. i am not as sure about planets aspecting the midheaven and appearance. i mostly think of this as having some say on their social position, place or standing in the society and culture they live in, but if the angles are connected by aspect it presents a different scenario.. if not - i mostly i think of the ascendant directly connected to appearance..

let me give an example, as i get tired of theory without some concrete examples. i have a friend i am going for coffee with in the next hour - moon in virgo on the ascendant exact - and square uranus exact - 16 virgo ascendant, 16 virgo moon, 16 gemini uranus and 14 gemini midheaven.. for me he is a good example of some of the unusual quirk i would associate of someone with moon square uranus on the ascendant.. now, maybe it has to do with the midheaven, but i think it has more to do with the ascendant.. he has had an influential and visionary role to play in the line of work he has done over the course of his life and is seen as such in a public context, but the image - well maybe i am going around in circles here, lol... you get my viewpoint and didn't mean to offend with my comments on miliband with saturn rising.. it would be modified with the jupiter setting too which i haven't addressed in my comments. last comment for today as i have to get some work done.. ps - i have saturn rising too fwiw, but also moon rising with other factors modifying it all as well..
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


I confess I may be biased on the subject of house placement but to me at least using WS houses Saturn operates as a first house planet in this chart. Mind you using a medieval orb it is conjunct the ASC if you see it in the 12th.

Mark


There is more than one way to skin a cat. How about the Sripati house system or whatever that holds that cusp means middle rather than start of house then you get 15 degrees each side. In the case of the ingress chart ( a desperate attempt to get back on topic) I gave Venus as ruler of the year on WSH but you could say Mars as dignified in the fifth too even though he is on his last legs of the synodic cycle .....&c
Matthew
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