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Skyscript Astrology Forum

K. Ernst Kraft prediction
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astrocorreia



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
Posts: 87

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:04 pm    Post subject: K. Ernst Kraft prediction Reply with quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Ernst_Krafft

Hi
K E Kraft predicted Hitler would be in danger betwen 7-11 Nov 1939,and on the 8th there was indeed an attempt against his life.

But why those dates? The sun was opposite his Mars-venus conjunction but not much else.To me it would have made more sense that the danger date was a few days earlier,when Mars was in precise square to his Mars.
What do you think led him to make this VERY accurate prediction?

Thanks

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hitler,_Adolf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTOVyRWjZAw

Interesting vídeo on Astrology in the 3rd Reich
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 684

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a look at Hitler's chart, and the transits for those dates.

Saturn and the Moon's South Node had been conjunct Hitler's Sun in September 1939, and Pluto had and would be again exactly square to his Sun from around 0 to 1 degrees Leo, and IsisTranspluto was also around 0 to 1 degrees Leo.

This very powerful, world-moving conjunction of Pluto and IsisTranspluto in 0 to 1 degrees Leo was exactly squaring Hitler's natal Sun. Activated in September 1939 by Saturn and the Moon's South Node being conjunct his Sun. My knowledge of Hitler's life isn't good, but I know at some stage he suffered deteriorating health, and wondered if this transit to his Sun affected his health adversely or if it empowered him?

But these transits do not explain those specific days in November 1939, when as you say the only inner planet transit to Hitler's chart is the Scorpio Sun opposing his natal Mars Venus conjunction in 16 degrees Taurus, which picks up the Uranus transit in 16 degrees Scorpio from April 1939.

Transiting Uranus opposition natal Mars does seem to be consistent with an attack, and Karl Ernst Kraft is possibly seeing the next time the Sun is conjunct that Uranus in 16 degrees Scorpio? Odd that he discounts the Sun in 16 degrees Taurus in May 1939, or 16 degrees Leo in August 1939 though.

I vaguely remember reading about the astrological techniques of W D Gann, who seemed to use the transiting Sun picking up older, more long-term transits? Maybe this was a commonly used technique from the early twentieth century, that has just been forgotten?

I am particularly struck that the conjunction of the Sun to the preceding Uranus is effective when the opposition and square were not, as I tend to regard all such aspects as equal. Interesting.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think one would first have to find out what chart kraft was using for hitler..
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Ursa Major



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Limburg

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
i think one would first have to find out what chart kraft was using for hitler..


I found this link:

https://astroeternity10.wordpress.com/articles/looking-at-krafts-astrological-prediction-for-hitler-and-elaborating-on-the-natal-chart-by-using-techniques-from-ancient-astrology/

The time was 18:03:53 CET or 17:03:53 U.T.
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Deb
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wilhelm Wulff's rectified chart, and details of how it fell into the hands of the gestapo is also detailed in this section of the reproduction of his Zodiac and the Swastika:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wulff2.html

scroll down to see the chart
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astrocorreia



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot

But he didn`t need profections and other Hellenic techniques.The elipse alone was suficient.
Recently there was a lunar elipse in David Cameron`s Ascendant.
He is behind Miliband in the polls,but I`ll be surprised if the British vote for the latter.

Regarding the OP,it also occurred to me that transit Sun activated the Mars square to Hitler´s Mars

The last time there was a solar elipse over my Asc, I got a job abroad only to lose it soon after
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astrocorreia



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ursa
There was an elipse on his Asc but a few days later a lunar one over his Sun.
That must have spurred on Kraft to make the prediction

On 20 July 1944 Venus was on his IC at 4 Leo.Might have protected him from Stauffenberg`s attempt.
Sun -Moon were also close at 28 Cancer


Last edited by astrocorreia on Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

astrocorreia wrote:
Thanks a lot

But he didn`t need profections and other Hellenic techniques.The elipse alone was suficient.
Recently there was a lunar elipse in David Cameron`s Ascendant.
He is behind Miliband in the polls,but I`ll be surprised if the British vote for the latter.

Regarding the OP,it also occurred to me that transit Sun activated the Mars square to Hitler´s Mars

The last time there was a solar elipse over my Asc, I got a job abroad only to lose it soon after


I don't usually bother looking at eclipses, as I have in the past and they don't seem to do anything. But I looked at this one and it seems the Moon's North Node was 29 degrees Libra and the Sun and Moon oppose each other just under 4 degrees of Scorpio/Taurus. Hitler's Ascendant is 26 degrees Libra 40 minutes, which is miles from this eclipse. His Midheaven is 4 degrees Leo 09 minutes, which could be affected if you think eclipses do anything. His Sun is 0 degrees Taurus 48 minutes, again miles from the eclipse, nothing like precise enough to stand out in particular.

This eclipse occurred on 28th October 1939, and the attack on Hitler was on 8th November, with no inner planet transits aspecting his Ascendant or triggering the eclipse.

For what its worth, transiting Phaethon was 26 degrees Cancer 25 minutes on 1st November 1939, and stationed at 28 degrees Cancer 22 minutes on 28th November 1939. That squared Hitler's Ascendant.

Btw, what are profections and Hellenic techniques?
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astrocorreia



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point Fleur.

However,elipses tend to affect the world at large rather than individuals,according to some sources, but in this case,the attempt on Hitler could be deemed a world event,as anything that happened to him would affect the world

Profections and other Hellenic techniques are dealt with at Traditional fórum.You`ll find a lot there
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I will look on the Traditional forum and try to understand those things.

My impression so far with Kraft's prediction of the attack on Hitler is that the stars are littered with clues, and astrologers pick up some consciously and some unconsciously, and we have all experienced picking up some directly out of the ether. Often we make a correct prediction using the wrong astrological reasoning. I try to keep an open mind but that eclipse really doesn't seem to go anywhere. It was an extremely precise prediction. There are loads of eclipses all the time that aspect lots of people's charts with wide orbs.
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astrocorreia



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
Ok, I will look on the Traditional forum and try to understand those things.

My impression so far with Kraft's prediction of the attack on Hitler is that the stars are littered with clues, and astrologers pick up some consciously and some unconsciously, and we have all experienced picking up some directly out of the ether. Often we make a correct prediction using the wrong astrological reasoning. I try to keep an open mind but that eclipse really doesn't seem to go anywhere. It was an extremely precise prediction. There are loads of eclipses all the time that aspect lots of people's charts with wide orbs.


Yes,it can be a headache to test these techniques
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Deb
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
Hitler's Ascendant is 26 degrees Libra 40 minutes, which is miles from this eclipse


Not according to the rectified chart he was using - the ascendant is at 20.29 Libra, and Uranus sits upon it at 19.29 Libra, so the eclipse (at 18.26 Libra) was within 1° of the Uranus-Asc conjunction.

Fleur wrote:
This eclipse occurred on 28th October 1939, and the attack on Hitler was on 8th November, with no inner planet transits aspecting his Ascendant or triggering the eclipse.


The warning marked the period between 7-10 of November as being the time of greatest danger. At this time Sun by transit opposed Hitler's natal Mars-Venus conjunction, which is natally on Hitler's 8th house cusp (Venus, his asc-ruler, conj Mars in this position warns of sudden, violent death). The article linked to above is very interesting, but if you refer to the text I linked to, we can see that the astrology was not dependent on Hellenistic methods. The astrological basis of the warning is very clear and obvious to me; and if you run a bi-wheel for the time of the blast (Munich, 9:20 pm) you see many valid connections, such as Moon on the 12th cusp, with Saturn conjoined to 12th-ruler Mercury, and Sun opposing Mars on the 8th cusp.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
Fleur wrote:
Hitler's Ascendant is 26 degrees Libra 40 minutes, which is miles from this eclipse


Not according to the rectified chart - the ascendant is at 20.29 Libra, and Uranus sits upon it at 19.29 Libra, so the eclipse (at 18.26 Libra) was within 1° of the Uranus-Asc conjunction.


I have long suspected that Hitler's Ascendant is about 28 degrees Libra, and that would be exactly hit (within about one degree) by the transiting Moon's North Node in 29 degrees Libra in November 1939 (the Mean Node about 28 degrees Libra 40 minutes on 8th November). And also transiting Phaethon would square his Ascendant within one degree, which would account for the inner planet trigger, which otherwise wouldn't be there leaving no explanation for the precise few days predicted. (Phaethon lies between Mars and Jupiter).

Imo the transiting Moon's Nodes are very powerful, but eclipses just don't seem to work and are often based on Sun and Moon conjunctions and oppositions many degrees from the Moon's Nodes.

That 20 degrees Libra 29 minutes rectified Ascendant looks too suspiciously exactly conjunct Uranus.

Hmm, ok I will look at that rectified chart.
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Deb
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The opening posts asks how Kraft made his prediction, and it is known he used the rectified chart, so that's obviously the one to consider. I suspect the astrologers involved in the events at that time gave a lot more ongoing thought and observation to the details of Hitler's chart than any of us do now.
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james_m



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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astrocorreia- thanks for starting the conversation here on this. i think it is a great question.

ursa - thanks for trying to answer my question and providing that interesting link..

deb thanks for the interesting link with hitlers chart included as well.. i agree with your comment i have copied below..

Deb wrote:
I suspect the astrologers involved in the events at that time gave a lot more ongoing thought and observation to the details of Hitler's chart than any of us do now.


judith hill offers a good quote on the transit of the nodal axis which i am going to paraphrase here.. north node on any planet is like a 'power surge' for that planet.. south node on any planet is like a 'power outage'.. she uses a 3 degree orb on this.

i think this quote is quite a good way to think about using the nodes in understanding charts better and perhaps hitlers chart for this window of time that krafft focused on in particular. here's why.

according to the link ursa left, the main reason krafft focused on this time frame was due the solar eclipse close to this time. eclipse data is directly connected with the place of the nodal axis by transit.. on the date of solar eclipse, south node is approx 1 degree away from hitlers natal sun which is in the 8th sign/house from the ascendant. the possibility of death would seem more pronounced using this small detail only. the solar eclipse is at 18 libra 36, which is quite close to the position of uranus on the ascendant at 19 libra 29.. if you do a chart up for the time of the eclipse to hitlers birthplace there are some valuable cross connections back to hitlers natal chart that some might like to consider. i think krafft would have been looking at this 2 chart overlap and drawing some conclusions.

if i would talk about only one of the many cross connections from the eclipse chart it would be the venus/saturn opposition on the nodal axis for the solar eclipse (se). venus rules the ascendant and 8th house in hitlers chart.. in the se chart, uranus/saturn rules the 8th house.. i suppose one can draw many different conclusions off the connections.. making a prediction is much more difficult to do though..

the nov 7-10th window of time has the sun transiting thru the venus/saturn square by opposition/square.this venus to saturn square is especially important in hitlers chart as it brings the ruler of the ascendant and the 8th together with the malefic saturn.. it also has the moon traveling thru libra/scorpio, over the se point and nodal axis area again as well.. while this is only some of what one can see overlapping the charts, it still remains to be seen what krafft was using to make the prediction aside from this.. i wish i knew.. there are other things i see, but there is no way i can know if krafft used these different techniques that i am looking at.. if someone finds out more - let us know. thanks..


image ru
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