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Ways too confusing love chart
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Ashes



Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:07 am    Post subject: Ways too confusing love chart Reply with quote

Dear Forum,
This is my second try to understand a chart which I draw for myself and I find it to be really confusing. I would really appreciate an understanding of what is happening and if someone can shed some light on it.

The data:
Created on: 12th of April, 2005
Time:1521 hrs (local time of Brussels) (50.50N, 4.20E)

The question: if I would get back together with my girlfriend.

Looking at the chart:
Scorpio is rising and so the ruler is Mars
Aries represents the 7th house that makes Mars the ruler as well.

Comments:
Sun and Venu are in 8th house but presumably combust (please correct me if I am wrong).
Moon in the 10th house and makes a semi sextile with the sun and the Venus.
While north and south node are exactly in opposition
Moon and Jupiter make a trine.
Mercury on the cusp of 8th house makes a trine with the Saturn.

What I can understand is from the chart is that my grilfriend is seriously double minded or in fear due to the sun and the venus being in the eight house. Yet the trine between mars and moon and simultaneously the semi-sexitle between the moon and the sun puzzles me.
Can ANYONE please help me out to understand a bit more?
I would be grateful for input.
I wish you all well.
Ash
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Ashes



Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please note the correction that
Moon, sun and venus make a sexitle and not a semi-sexitle.
My appologies.
Ash
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Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ash,

Can you check your chart data. The chart for this time has a late Leo ascendant, not a Scorpio ascendant.

Deb
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Ashes



Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Deb for your post.
I used the chart which I created via this site (home page, chart calculation link)
That one suggests that the Scorpio should be rising. The other softwares which I have on my computer (Tara, astro123) also suggests the same.
Would the chart produced by the link be erronous?
If that is the case, can you suggest any other source where I can check?
Thanks once again,
Ash
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Ashes



Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,
I just check again and you are right.
But now I am more confused because the 7th house is shared by aquarius and pices. So what shall be the house for the 7th?

Supposing that I take Aquarius for the 7th house then saturn is the rule which is in the 12th house and still makes a trine with the mercury and square it with jupiter. But simultaneously Sun is it's favourite house (9th), while the Venus(on the cusp of 9th) is in sextile with moon(11th) and mars (6th).
Additionally, Now sun is in opposition to south node and it also makes a sextile with Uranus.
At the same time moon makes a trine with Mars and Neptune. And Mercury a trine with Saturn.
What is even more confusing is that mars is on the cusp of 7th house.
So would you be so kind to shed some light?
The answer which comes to my mind is yes due to the relation of moon (connect in sextile with venus) but it is the saturn which is really confusing me.
Thankyou.
Ash
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Ashes



Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Saturn is in 11th house and not 12th.
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Ashes



Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The make the matters even more interesting, the moon is in cancer, the ruler of the house.
I am getting more and more confused.
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the Moon at 7.36 Gemini!

To find your significators take the planets that rule the signs on the cusps of the houses you are using. So for you, the ruler of the 1st house cusp in Leo: the Sun; for your girlfriend, the ruler of the 7th house cusp in Aquairus: Saturn.

The Moon is quite a long way from the sextile of Venus, and the two main significators (Sun and Saturn) are separating from a square aspect with no friendly reception between them. So I’m afraid I don’t think you have good prospects of rekindling this relationship. But note that the ascendant is late at 28.25 Leo. We’re warned to avoid judging charts with late ascendants and I don’t like to go ahead and disregard that because my experience with these sorts of charts is that the querent already knows all there is to be known or there is no longer anything they can do to effectively create a change.

PS - the chart calculation service offered on this site is not as good as the ones offered at AstroDienst http://www.astro.com/ or Astrolabe http://www.alabe.com/freechart/

But it might be very useful for you to spend some time on manual calculation. I know it seems arduous and slow, but in the process of calculating a chart you absorb a lot of useful information that makes the interpretation much easier.
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Ashes



Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Deb,
I shall follow your advice.
Ash
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:12 am    Post subject: My thoughts Reply with quote

Ok, sorry couldnt answer earlier, but as promised, here I am.
First of all, I think tara software is kinda of dificult to use, I always have to compare with astrodienst to be sure.

But there we go... your AC - 28Leo25 - as Deb said, the chart is usually disregarded as "time has passed" for the question... ex: one time I asked a question if a friend of mine was pregnant, and it gave the final degrees of a sign, why ? Because at the time I asked, she already know she really wasn´t pregnant. But many people dont follow the considerations before judment, so I will interpret with an "no responsability" declaration note Razz

The late degree in Leo gives me another preocupation... it is too close to fixed powerful star REgulus, which is good for success, not too good for romance... it can be "violent attachments", "trouble through love affairs", as in www.winshop.com.au/annew, but it is worth saying Lilly though Cor leonis was a giver of "vertue and influence", CA p 181.

Your planet is exalted in Aries, which may mean that you were too passioned... there is no mutual reception between your planets, saturn (her planet) is in exile, and her fall is in Aries, maybe meaning a lack of confort of hers... your dispositor is mars, which is in conjunction with neptune, giving illusions..Saturn in exile frequently gives me an impression of lack of honesty...conjunt Lillith means strive for independence, egocentrism... the aspect between Sat and Sun is disarmonic, which in love charts means quarrels, problems, and is separating, break-up.

I am also worried because the moon makes two quincunces aspects, almost perfects, within sun and saturn... I think quincunces, that are not used in tradicional astrology, are powerful indications of malefic action.

Sun and saturn are going away, and they dont make aspect, translation or colection... this means you two wont be back together.

An advice from an astrologer´s apprentice... I really think the break up is for the best... MAYBE in two (units of time) whe will be back, but if this is so, I think it will cause a lot of life problems (mars and uranus mainly)

Remember that theorically that chart is not to be interpreted :-) hope not being harsh in any way, hope it helps
Yuzuru
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siraxi



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 99
Location: Romania

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I'd like to pop in and add a few elements, there are several contacts with the 7th house:
- Moon conjunct Antiscia of Saturn (09Gem11), 7th ruler
- Moon square Uranus, modern 7th ruler
- Sun semisquare Uranus, modern 7th ruler
Other elements:
- Venus trines/sextiles the ASC-DSC axis
- last aspect of the Moon: sextile Venus, turned 4th ruler (end of relationship)

Planetary day and hour of Mars. Uranus in the 7th house. Regulus on the ASC. These are quite aggressive indications. The temperature must have risen a lot.

Since it's the Sun who is separating from the square with Saturn, it must have been you who left her. I wonder why would you want to make up with her again ? Do you really want this to happen ?
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Ashes



Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply.
The answer is NO to your question.
I have never commited to anyone in my whole life and this was the first time. I committed blindly.
My work frequently requires me to work during the weekends. On 26th of March, I had to work and in the morning, (leaving the finer details aside), while I left, we kissed and she told me that she really loved me and I loved her and still love her.
In the evening when I came back, she told me that her intuition told her that it was not the right relation and that was that. I really argued and tried but I could not change her mind and thus on 2nd of April I took up astro (horary).

Now back to the chart.
As said earlier, I picked up astro on 2nd of April and I spend on average 10-12 hours reading and understanding. And finally I draw the chart on 12th of April to ask the question, as her intuition told her that it was wrong, mine told me that it was right. (I am libra and she an aries).

Now looking at the chart, I find no answers or at least more puzzles then a straight forward yes or a no. Following are my reason and I am taking the chart as a reference.

-ives:
Asc is leo, thus Sun is the ruler. My girlfriend falls under 7th house (Aquarius and is ruled by great melfic Saturn), Venus is always close to sun, and they both sit in 9th house of under Aries. (Finer details can be checked on the chart itself). Saturn sits in 11th house of hopes and wishes and makes a perfect square with venus and sun and north node, thus suggesting a clear NO. Agreed so, far, so good.

Now there are other factors which are more confusing. The relationship of Moon (Venus and moon representing woman) with Jupiter and Mars. It is a perfect triangle made of trines. If you take away all the aspects and leave that one then you might find it perfect. While sun is in cadent house, Moon is cardinal. Sun and Mars representing man, make sextile to each other, thus strengthening the position of man.

Then the triplicity.
Moon, jupiter, mars and mercury are all in nocturnal signs.
The relationship of libra, Gemini and Aqurius in triplicity, where saturn is replaced by Moon itself.
The link of ascedent (leo ruled by sun), with a trine to sun and Venus.
To be honest, I find the whole chart to be a yes and a no, without any results (my conclusion).
The No is very clear, but the forces opposing the No are as strong as the NO itself and it has all to do with Moon, the woman's luminary.
I can throw in couple of other things as well like Mercury, Uranus and Pluto, along with fortuna, North, south node, etc. But the more I look at it, the more confusing it gets.
I hope now you know all what is to no, but please do ask if you need to ask me something new.
I wish you well.
Ash.
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Ashes



Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the new ones who would like to jump into the discussion, here is the data:

Date: 12April, 2005
Place: brussels
Time: 1521 hrs. (GMT = -2, please apply DST)

Question: Would I and my girlfriend get back together?

Ash
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siraxi



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 99
Location: Romania

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again

Please don't mind if I ask this: was it the very first time you thought at this question? I mean, if the event happened on March 26 and the horary question was asked only 7 days later, didn't you think over and over again about the whole situation ?...
In this case the horary question is not asked properly, as it was not quite the first time when you thought about it.
I suppose this would explain the late Ascendant. This would also explain some contradictory aspects of this horary chart.
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the late ascendant was indicative of the fact that it was too late for the relationship, not that he should have asked the question earlier. Chances are the chart would have had a late ascendant even if it had been asked seven days ago. The right time to ask a horary question is not when it first enters your head but at a time when the need to know becomes the overriding concern. We constantly have questions going through our heads, often of great importance. But I think as astrologers who sometimes do our own horaries, it is when we commit to the horary itself that the chart needs to be drawn. I have held off for weeks before asking a question, not because the question wasn't important, but because I wasn't ready to commit to the answer. Ash mentioned that he studied for a few days before asking the question. It is important to really understand what it is we are asking and how we might go about interpreting the answer the chart give us. Deb's article 'Judge not upon every slight motion' explains it clearly with a good example of how, sometimes, it is better to wait until all other avenues have been exhausted.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_considerations.html

Another good article from Deb relating to this is 'Questioning our horaries' http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_questions.html

Cheers
Sue
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