skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Is Besiegement possible when out of sign?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Larxene



Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 312

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Is Besiegement possible when out of sign? Reply with quote

Hello,

Briefly, my understanding is that Besiegement occurs when a planet is in between two malefics, and none of the benefics cast a ray in between them. For example, Mars in the 10th degree of Taurus, the Moon in the 15th degree of Taurus, and Saturn in the 20th degree of Taurus. The Moon is besieged by the malefics.

My question is, would a planet be besieged if one of the malefics is in an adjacent sign (while also maintaining that no benefics cast a ray between them)?

For example, Mars in the 25th degree of Taurus, the Moon in the 5th degree of Gemini, and Saturn in the 10th degree of Gemini. Is the Moon besieged here?



Larxene
_________________
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul
Administrator


Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1465

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you allow for your aspects to carry across sign, then I see no reason it wouldn't.

Personally I see it that if a planet is separated in its last aspect from one malefic and its next aspect is to perfect with another malefic, and it remains within orb of that application, then the planet is besieged. I use out of sign aspects, and so I recognise besiegement across sign boundaries.
_________________
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates

https://heavenlysphere.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vasanth



Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 107

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larxene,

If I recall correctly, there are two types of besiegement - besiegement by degree and besiegement by sign.
The example you provided of Mars, Moon and Saturn in Taurus would be besiegement by degree.

'Besiegement by sign' synopsis-> the malefics by body or ray afflict the signs before and after the sign in which the planet is placed; the malefics not aspecting the sign itself; and the benefics also in aversion to the sign.
I think it is a loose affliction than besiegement by degree

Quote:

For example, Mars in the 25th degree of Taurus, the Moon in the 5th degree of Gemini, and Saturn in the 10th degree of Gemini. Is the Moon besieged here?


In Taurus the Moon was separating from Mars, a malefic. When it changed sign to Gemini, it probably escaped the influence of Mars, but it has to now clash with Saturn, the greater malefic.

This could be considered as sort of cross between besiegement by degree and besiegement by sign.

The moon is not probably besieged in the sense it has to carry the agenda of one malefic to another (since the change of signs would have probably voided that); but the application to Saturn by body would still be considered problematic for the Moon.

Vasanth
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 947
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think sign boundaries matter in this case. One stipulation I know of is that malefics have to cast rays within 7 degrees to each side of a given planet, but there is no such condition for bodily besiegement.
_________________
Curtis Manwaring
Zoidiasoft Technologies, LLC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 412
Location: Kent - England

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A planet may be besieged by planets in surrounding signs as well as by degree

A planet may also besiege by rays. In Ben Dykes Intro to Traditional Astrology he shows an example chart ( from Antiochus -Schmidt 2009 p195) where Mars in Aries enclose Moon in Virgo by aspecting Libra and Leo.

Larxene's second example would be a composite of surrounding sign and degree I reckon

Matthew

ITA pp 224 et sui
_________________
Matthew Goulding
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Larxene



Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 312

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses guys.

I was reading the concept of 'enclosure' in Robert Schmidt's Definitions and Foundations. I recall several examples in Firmicus where he states that a malefic planet in "the anafora of the sign" the Moon is in, afflicts the Moon. Since a malefic can enclose another planet with its rays despite not testifying to it, I was wondering whether a malefic can participate in obstructing a planet despite being in an adjacent sign (that is, not testifying to the latter).

At the moment, with the responses here, I believe it is possible.



Larxene Xenohart
_________________
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated