Mystery chart 1 by moonbright Hi: I'm just new at this - please forgive the image quality. I thought this chart might be of interest. This person is not really famous except perhaps in Europe and Asia and then perhaps only in certain circles. Quote Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:18 pm
2 by moonbright Sorry, forgot to add that it is a noon chart as I was unable to locate a birth time. Quote Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:20 pm
3 by james_m hi moonbright, welcome to skyscript and thanks for participating in something that i enjoy - mystery charts... i recommend finding an accurate birth time as opposed to a noon time as all comments will be much more general as a consequence.. i may comment on the chart, but not at this moment.. thanks - james Quote Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:22 pm
4 by moonbright Hi: The birthdate is widely published but I could not find a time. However, I thought about it and went over the bio and I have chosen a time that I think fits the history quite well with the house positions. I will post my reasoning when I reveal the person. Thanks. Quote Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:22 pm
5 by james_m hi mb, i don't know about your wrecktification, but lets assume it is accurate or in the ballpark.. it is much like a sunrise chart which has the houses laid out in such a way where one can appreciate the relationships back to the sun.. i call them solar houses and i like to consider them.. i note in reading the latest ben dyke translation just how much solar houses were used which just reinforces my appreciation for gaining more insight off of them.. even if the time you have is wrong, it is still a good way to gain more insight on a chart.. the sun is very powerful in it's own sign and in the ascendant.. there would be a need to be the centre of attention and be a good degree of generousity that i associate with leo.. the moon is strong if on the angle as it is in this chart.. it rules the 12th which has venus/pluto conjunction.. this all tells us something about the relationships he forms with others. the moon just prior to full moon is said to be a liability.. i don't know that i agree with that.. the indian astrologers associate the full moon in a positive light.. either way moon in aq has a type of detachment that is a nice compliment to the fire sign emphasis this chart has.. my own subjectivity gets in the way, but this could be a good chart for an actor.. maybe a politician to a lesser extent.. my guess is he would have a lot of friends either way.. i am just thinking now of an old friend i know who is still alive who has a chart much like this... he is a leo born in 21 i think with the mars/neptune conjunction , but moon in aries.. looking at his chart - aug 21st 1921.. he is quite an amazing man really.. he is still going very strong health wise.. he has always been active - a general contractor who can do anything in terms of electrical, plumbing, carpentry, welding - you name it.. i had him in the house here about 5 years ago helping me to pull out the old bathtub and also he has done some electrical in the past few years.. his name is jack and this chart has reminded me of him.. he is a neighbour of ours.. he will be turning 94 this year and still going strong.. i really admire him.. i could make a guess on his rising sign too, but it isn't worth it!! i will say this though.. he had some issues with the 2 kids he had - which in a round about way is another leo theme, although the trad folks hate it when you mix signs and houses.. children are supposed to be about the 5th house.. anyway - one of his sons died in his 30's so they suffered the loss of a child which is always quite devastating for parents.. his other son is gay and this basically drove my friend around the bend as he could never get his head around that.. he really didn't want anything to do with him.. i wondered how much of that played into the mars/neptune conjunction in his chart as well? i think the jupiter/saturn conjunction in virgo is extremely resourceful.. i see how it played out in jacks chart, but would be curious how it played out in this persons chart.. if 2nd house - perhaps some type of business, or corporation leader - doesn't the guy from ge long gone - jack welsh - have a chart like this too? i am going on memory here.. thanks for trying to engage the board with a mystery chart.. perhaps some others will have something to say.. i got a bit sidetracked by being reminded of my neighbour jack!! his chart is very similar although the moon in aries squared onto pluto makes him a lot more edgy then this person probably is with a moon in aq.. Quote Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:44 pm
6 by moonbright Thanks JM. Well done on the date - very close. And wrecktification is the perfect word :0). Quote Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:15 pm
7 by james_m thanks mb, but it ain't about the date, so much as it is about revealing something thru the astro on the chart!!! one thought i had when you first posted it - intuition maybe - religious leader... of course putting aries on the midheaven with aries in a conjunction with neptune - a planet i associate with religion - makes sense.. i had that thought prior to your wrecktification!!! i get a kick out of astrologers, including myself who try to match the data on a chart to the reality on the ground and especially after the fact.. what we can say about charts of well known, or even not so well known after the fact - is very different then what we might say if we didn't know anything about them.. this is why i continue to believe mystery charts are a good discipline/exercise and reality check on just what we are doing when we read charts.. thanks again for stimulating my own interest anyway! Quote Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:37 pm
8 by james_m it is fun for me to do this even if it makes little sense, lol.. i was thinking about the chart more.. if he was some kind of religious leader, the thinking would be more rigid with a conservative emphasis.. i say this given mercury and moon in fixed signs, with a fixed emphasis to the chart. and in combo with jupiter in virgo - ruled by mercury which is conjunct saturn.. any religion this person was to lead would definitely be conservative.. looking at the sun in leo again i notice the only obvious aspect to the sun is a minor one - 45 to pluto... that is more fire and brimstone type stuff coming from the pluto in cancer generation that wanted to make sure all those conservative appearances were maintained even if below the surface something completely different was going on - classic pluto in cancer type dynamic for me anyway... it wasn't until pluto moved into leo which coincided with uranus moving into gemini especially - that signalled a real change on a social level with regard to social mores in the west anyway.. too bad you don't know the time of day the person was born!! Quote Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:40 am
9 by moonbright I'm fairly confident in the timing of the chart - it may not be totally accurate but I don't think it's horrible either. This person's life was pretty short and their qualities as expressed in the bio are quite pronounced. And because of all the conjunctions and the resulting lack of wide dispersal of the planets it seems to me that there's only a few ways that you could wrecktify it to match their life story reasonably. I could, of course, be in a completely Neptunian fog about this. :0) Quote Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:57 pm
10 by moonbright Introducing Senior Lieutenant Lydia ?Lilya? Litvyak, ?The White Lily/White Rose of Stalingrad?, ace fighter pilot of World War II. Born 18 August 1921, Moscow, Russia. No birth time but I have posted the chart with a Leo ascendant and will give my reasoning in the next post. Lieutenant Litvyak was the first female fighter pilot to earn the title of ?Ace?. She is highly decorated with several medals being awarded during her service. In 1990 she was awarded the highest honour ?Hero of the Soviet Union? posthumously by USSR President Mikhail Gorbachev. Her story reads like a Hollywood movie: She started training at 14 and by her late teens had graduated from a military flying school and become an instructor. With the outbreak of the war she joined an aviation unit and recorded her first ?kill? on her third mission over Stalingrad. In the ensuing two years she claimed 11 solo victories and three team victories, had to land three times (including a belly landing) due to damage to her plane and was wounded twice. She continued to fly after being injured. She was eventually shot down in a battle over the Ukraine and there is great mystery surrounding the final outcome with some sources claiming she was killed and others that she had been taken prisoner by the Nazis. Her love life, if it can be called that, centred on the airfield as well, with her affianced dying there in a crash that she witnessed. She told her mother that she didn?t realize she had loved him until after his death. She resolutely maintained her femininity despite the military milieu, dying her hair with peroxide from the infirmary, piecing together scarves from parachute material and flying with bouquets of flowers in the cockpit. As well, after successful missions, she would buzz the airfield with her plane and perform acrobatics, which were forbidden, enraging her commander. There have been several fictional works created about her including a play which has been performed in the UK starring Tilda Swinton. A museum and school honouring her is located in Krasny Luch, Ukraine. Here is the Wiki entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Litvyak Quote Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:53 pm
11 by moonbright Because of time constraints and for simplicity?s sake the only biographical information that I used was from the Wikipedia entry. I have never attempted to match a chart to the biography before and I don?t think I would have attempted it if the bio or the chart were more complicated. The motivation to try was provided by the Moon - I am well acquainted with Moon/Aquarius/7 - and I was either na?ve or arrogant enough to think that I might know where it belonged. Indifference to romance seems to be the telling quality of that placement (perhaps when there?s also not much influence from 5?) in my experience and this seems to be borne out in her story. So, starting at the AC and Sun/Mercury/Leo/1(conjunct Mars/Neptune/Leo/12): a fiery, aggressive personality, confident and direct, unafraid. Jupiter/Saturn/Virgo/2: receives material means through one?s own efforts of ?the body? and the restriction or ending of others? by the connection with the 2H/8H (Uranus/Pisces) axis. Virgo has historically been seen as the sign of health or medical issues but I personally would expand that to include anything to do with ?the body?. My reasoning for this is partly from something that Michael Bergen, author of The Astrology Code, has said about Virgo Sun being overrepresented statistically in the charts of sexual predators, sexual abuse victims and sex workers and partially just my own observations about the careers or trades of people who have a strong Virgo influence (including serial killers, appropriately enough). I don?t mean to suggest that everyone who has an emphasis on 2H/8H in that way is prepared to kill, just that when combined with other placements/aspects it might lend itself to a more warrior-like personality. As well, I find that Saturn often points to an area where an individual is willing to ?apprentice? themselves: work steadily towards developing an exceptional skill level; craftsmanship. This may or may not coincide with their actual career but I find it often does. Jupiter and Saturn are conjunct here and perhaps that conjunction could be called peregrine, as it makes no other major aspects. This makes me think about Lieutenant Litvyak?s elevation to an elite team of two flyers who sought out the enemy on their own, minus any support from the rest of the squad. Noel Tyl says that peregrine planets often ?fly away with the chart?. The third house is ruled by Mercury and contains the North Node. I don?t have ideas worth communicating about this, mostly because I was too lazy to do any research. The fourth house is ruled by Venus which may point to a love of one?s home/homeland, the place of one?s roots. The fifth house is ruled by Jupiter and makes me think that she probably attracted a lot of suitors despite being not very romantically inclined. The two planets in the 11th house could indicate a predisposition toward friendship rather than romance. The sixth is ruled by Saturn, possibly indicating again a willingness to extend great efforts towards one?s job/craft. Moon/Aquarius/7 is a quirky moon. I think her Leo fieriness is tempered by the instinctive, unpredictable genius of that moon, giving her the wits to outmanoeuvre her opponents repeatedly. (One of her commanders called her ?a born fighter pilot?) The moon opposite AC/planets in Leo also describes her cheeky, humorous, look-at-me insubordinations of both the rules and the milieu; insubordinations that did not threaten the cohesion of the team but probably enhanced it. Uranus/Pisces/8 predicts a sudden death for self or others and with the inclusion of Jupiter/Saturn in 2 supports the placement of these planets there. Uranus rules aviation. The ninth house is ruled by Neptune as well. Long journeys in the clouds?? :0) The MC/10 is ruled by Mars, appropriate for a military career. Taurus/Venus is also here possibly indicating a love of battle. The eleventh house cusp is Gemini but Venus/Pluto are in Cancer. This speaks to me of a love of home/homeland, being on the home team, a deep and sustained willingness to protect the mother country. The trines to the 8H/2H axis reinforce the idea of being willing to risk one?s life and to kill for one?s country, in my opinion. The 12th house cusp is Cancer with Mars/Neptune in Leo which may again point to a willingness to fight for what one loves. The opposition to the Moon in 7 creates a very interesting visual of hidden enemies/open enemies, a ?now you see them, now you don?t? idea, which I think perfectly describes air battle. In fact, you could create the visual of war in the clouds or in the air from those placements but I could be pushing it a little. :0). Her entire emotional life (Moon/Venus by placement or aspect), to me, seems to be directed toward defending one?s home from enemies. It would be interesting to see what the nodal axis has to say about that. So that?s my reasoning for placing things where I did but of course working backwards is much easier than working forwards, especially in this case. I find her story very interesting and I hope others have as well. All comments welcomed. Quote Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:02 pm