16
The switching condition I would not describe as rare.
It is less common but still quite frequent.

It does require calculating the target weights for both the non-significators though.

It is the switching mechanism that does provide full coverage of any scale, as you say.

17
Yesterday's 13:45 Listowel is a pertinent race re reversing/switching the Proportions.

Sepharial first says to reverse the Proportions of the Significator if the non-significators show the same weights as each other but these are different from the Significator's.

Then for a particular example race he adds another condition: that the Measure of both non-significators is to the same Angle.

I have not fully made up my mind on the second condition, and currently do not apply it.

So, for me at least, the switch does take place for this race.
And as it happens, the bottom weight became the indicated horse.
It duly delivered at 7/1.

GB - what conditions do you apply to trigger the switch?

18
skyrack wrote:Then for a particular example race he adds another condition: that the Measure of both non-significators is to the same Angle.

I have not fully made up my mind on the second condition, and currently do not apply it.


GB - what conditions do you apply to trigger the switch?
I do require the second condition, which may be why I find it is rare.

19
Yes - applying the second condition would make reversal much rarer.
That second condition has some interesting ramifications for the "simple" house method employed by Sepharial. I am just working through them now.

As an aside to that, do you use a night-time formula for the PoF with evening races or not?

20
Yes - applying the second condition would make reversal much rarer.
That second condition has some interesting ramifications for the "simple" house method employed by Sepharial. I am just working through them now.

As an aside to that, do you use a night-time formula for the PoF with evening races or not?

21
I avoid the issue by not looking at races that start after sunset. There are plenty of daytime races to analyse and I don't want to introduce yet another uncertainty.

23
Astrogooner,

Why don't you work through it for yourself?
All the information you need is on this thread.

The chart is very minimal: Angles and Sun, Moon and PoF.

I hope you were on the winner which you asked for.

24
GB,

Yes - that avoids the issue, and one that did not concern Sepharial.

Re the second condition for switching:

For non-significators to take their Measure from the same Angle, they must be within 90 degrees of each other.
The Sun and Moon can only be in concert a quarter of the time around the new moon from the waning crescent to the waxing crescent.

Taking the big race of the day, as an example, at say, 4pm in the summer and 3pm in the winter, and ignoring for the sake of argument any longitudinal difference, the Sun is in the 8th House and some 135 degrees from the ASC/1st Cusp from which the PoF is cast.

Now the PoF at the New Moon is on the ASC and travels house-wise during the course of a month.
So the PoF must travel 180 degrees to come into concert zone with the Sun which is from Full Moon to Last Quarter.

The final pairing of non-significators is the PoF and the Moon.
But as the PoF is always 135 degrees from the Moon, at this race time, they can never act in concert.

About 3 hours earlier, the Moon and PoF are just within concert range, so these can only act in concert for the very first races of the day.
If you use the night-time reversal formula for the PoF, then the Moon and PoF are also capable of acting in concert for the later evening races.

Over and above, whether the non-significators indicate the same horses/weights, the same angle condition reduces the switching by a factor of more than four.
Typically you are looking for the first races on the card from Full Moon to the Last Quarter and either side of the New Moon.

All this ignores the marginal affect for GB racing of longitude which benefits eastern courses against western courses for the early races.
So the 12:30 Yarmouth stands a better chance than the 12:30 Cork of switching. Although evening races at Cork are more likely to switch if you use the night-time formula for the PoF.

Again all this uses the MC + 90 degrees ASC of Sepharial's method.
The same principles apply, especially re the Sun and Moon, but using the true ASC to calculate the PoF will have a more variable affect.
Where the ASC is closer to the MC, then more of the early races, come into the concert zone.

I think these arguments stand up to scrutiny, but I am more than capable of making elementary mistakes.

25
Yesterday's big race 15:45 Navan is another case in point re reversal.

Using Sepharial's method the PoF is Significator.
The non-significators share the same weights/horses and which are different from the Significator's.
But using the Angle rule they are not "in concert" and there is no reversal.

I do not apply the Angle rule, and therefore did reverse the Significator's proportions.
This indicated 3 horses: a midweight horse and the 2 bottomweights.
The result: midweight 9th and last at 20/1, bottomweights 1st and 2nd at 11/2 and 8/1.

26
Skyrack

Was merely repeating another's post -

there's no need to get so angry every time.

Interestingly, two of the three 'Touch' winners, Another Touch and Don't Touch, at Ayr on Saturday were signified by the first aspect to Venus. I'm still trying to find the significator of Right Touch, the winner of the 16:55. Any ideas?
I hope you were on the winner which you asked for.
I did thanks, although Free Eagle let me down for what would have been a bit of a monster treble. But i did land a double double, so no complaints.

1 Don't Touch 3.45 Ayr (RACE 5)
(Win and Each Way)
Live Stream 19/09/2015 5 Places
1/4 Odds 8/1 Won
2 Ribchester 2.15 Newbury (RACE 3)
(Win and Each Way)
Live Stream 19/09/2015 2 Places
1/4 Odds 2/1 Won
Multiples
Bet Type No of Bets Unit Stake Stake To Return Returns
EW Doubles 1 25.00 50.00 787.50
Total Stake: 50.00 Total Returns: 787.50


1 Cymro 2.50 Newbury (RACE 4)
(Win and Each Way)
Live Stream 19/09/2015 4 Places
1/4 Odds 8/1 Placed
2 Toofi 3.45 Ayr (RACE 5)
(Win and Each Way)
Live Stream 19/09/2015 5 Places
1/4 Odds 16/1 Placed
Multiples
Bet Type No of Bets Unit Stake Stake To Return Returns
EW Doubles 1 15.00 30.00 225.00
Total Stake: 30.00 Total Returns: 225.00
Verum e

27
Some crackers today, guys. Let's see how we go.

Some of these I will dutch.

Pontefract

14:35 ? Moon (sxt) ? Seastrom / Ormskirk / Tick In The Box

15:05 ? Venus (sqr) ? Lovely Memory / Pjama Party

16:15 ? Jupiter (sqr) ? Trinity Star

16:15 ? Sun (tri) ? Star Drifter

Windsor

15:25 ? Mercury (tri) ? Thomas Sensazione

16:00 ? Jupiter (sqr) ? Sweet P / Adventure Seeker

17:35 ? Mercury (sqr) ? Double Heaven / Revolutionist
If it's not astronomically true, it's not astrologically true.