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Catastrophe's showed in Ingress chart - Ayanamsha question.
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Catastrophe's showed in Ingress chart - Ayanamsha question. Reply with quote

.


I tried the Sidereal cancer ingress charts Before 9/11 event. Charts casted for New york.
It was interesting.






The Pluto Saturn opposition is exactly across the Ascendant axis !
Also joined by transiting Mars on that date.

I tested Lahiri , Krishnamurtí and Fagan-Allen Ayanamsha for the charts.
It showed that Fagan-Allen was Close to angles. Krishnamurty had same ascendant. Lahiri had other sign as ascendant (Gemini - Ardra rising).

S


Last edited by Stefan on Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Stefan



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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.


Then I did a Sidereal Cancer ingress chart for the recent Chile earthquake:






A similar pattern emerged. The Mars opposition Pluto around the ingress time turned up very angular for the location of Santiago.
Again Fagan-Allen showed close angularity. Krishnamurthi showed the same ascendant as Fagan-Allen. Lahiri did produce another ascendant altogether.
Just like the New York ingress for 9/11.

That was some great results for Fagan-Allen.
The western siderealists use it and say that it is much precise in angularity.
The use solar returns much with focus on angularity in these charts.

(However I have tested Fagan-Allen and it seems to not give good results with the Divisional charts in jyotish. Or Dashas and bhuktis.)



S
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Stefan



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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.


The Sidereal Aries ingress chart (Fagan-Allen) a few Days Before the
Nepal earthquake in april this year.
MC is conjunct Uranus by two degrees and Pluto squaring MC/IC axis.





S
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Stefan



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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.




Testing the 2011 22 jul bombing and masskilling in Oslo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

In the Sidereal Cancer Ingress 2011:
Noting that IC is near Mars and Node. But a rather large orb 8 degrees.

Looking at the Declinations one sees that Node Mars and IC all goes together in parallel.

*Mars 23'N04'
*Node 23'N15'
*IC 21'N58

I have not looked at this Before in declinations. May be a reason why some placements are not exact in longitude ?





S
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Stefan



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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.


National trauma in Sweden 1986 when Head of state Olof Palme was murdered on open street after a Movie visit with his wife.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Olof_Palme


Aries ingress chart show a pluto S.node conjunction ( and mars)
conjunct ascendant.

Checking Declinations too: Mars is C//IC (Contraparallel).

Fagan-Allen used here as well. Will check other Ayanamshas later on...









S
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Stefan,

Thanks for these example charts! Fagan school astrologers have adopted the use of cardinal ingress charts from tropical astrologers, but use the entrance of the Sun into the sidereal signs using the Fagan-Allen ayanamsa.

Since these ingresses aren't the equinoxes and solstices, I've always questioned if the 12 sidereal ingress charts aren't all of the same value. So I've done some earthquake ingress research using the monthly ingress before an event. But you are getting interesting results for sidereal cardinal ingress charts.

From my own experience, the Lahiri ayanamsa fails with ingress charts. But Krishnamurti and Fagan-Allen ayanamsas give fairly similar results except for the Moon which moves a day between K and F-A. The Lahiri ayanama also failed in tests done by astrologers of the Fagan school. They haven't tested the Krishnamurti ayanamsa which is 59 minutes different from Fagan-Allen.

I've also found that the Fagan-Allen ayanamsa doesn't work for India's varga charts. I will see if I can find time to post monthly ingress charts for the events you posted. I haven't worked much with declinations, but it looks like they are important. (I have to go back and study your charts.)
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.



The crane catastrophe in the mosquee in Mecca killed many people on 9 september.

Now today two weeks later 24 september, 700 pilgrims where killed in a crowd in Mecca.

The Sidereal Cancer ingress for Mecca spans these two events.
Very active chart with Uranus, Mars and Pluto on angles.

(I will post the Sidereal virgo ingress chart as well as it reflects the ominous cancer ingress chart. pointing out september as the month of action.)


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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have been posting some impressive charts, Stefan. Just now I calculated the Fagan-Allen and Krishnamurti Mecca Virgo ingresses. The charts are close, but Fagan-Allen planets are closer to the angles. Do you happen to have the precise time of these two Mecca events? It's interesting to compare event and ingress charts. (EDIT: Here are the times from the Solunars site: Crane collapse: Sept. 11, 5:45 p.m.; Stampede: Sept 24, about 9:00 a.m.)

The only advantage the Krishnamurti chart might have is that the Moon and Neptune form a close grand trine with the MC. This trine has much wider orbs in the Fagan-Allen chart.

I have tested solar ingress charts for earth events (earthquakes), but had not considered them for other types of events, especially events caused by people. I might look at equinox and solstice charts for other types of events, but convert them to the sidereal zodiac.


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Stefan



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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake occurred at 00:58:53 UTC on 26 December with an epicentre off the west coast of Sumatra, Indonesia. The event is known by the scientific community as the Sumatra–Andaman earthquake


The Tsunami killed about 130 000 people in Indonesia. The Capricorn ingress
for 2003 which includes the dec 2004 tsunami have a chart with similar angularity as 9/11 and others. Saturn-Pluto angular.
This is the Capricorn ingress chart set for capital Jakarta.

EDIT: Wrong chart




I have done some Reading about western siderealists techniques and this is from James Eshelman's "Sidereal Mundane astrology"
"Saturn-Pluto
From Saturn-Pluto we expect harsh, dramatic tragedies: catastrophic disasters with profound
feelings of irrevocable loss."



The Capricorn and cancer ingresses are said to be of greatest importance.
The Capricorn is most important and is important for the whole year.


(Ptomely's old rule of ignoring cancer ingresses if Capricorn ingress chart have fixed sign of ascendant is not used by those sidereal astrologers. Neither have Rao team of vedic astrologers mentioned this in their manual.)

Therese:
I don't have the times you asked about ready as I often use the animate chart function with year, month, day,hour and seconds to arrive at the ingress time. These charts you ask for was just screenshoted off the bat and posted without noting. Lol.


Last edited by Stefan on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stefan



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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.

.....Continuing from last post with the Tsunami earthquake Indonesia set for Jakarta.

Libra ingress 18 oct 2003 21:23:37


Asc. 23' Tau 01
MC 23' Aqu 38'
PL 23'Sco 07'

Pluto exact opposite Ascendant and squaring MC.


Declinations:
SA 22'N 03'
ASC 22'N53'

So in this chart Saturn is angular too (in declination).
Giving a Saturn pluto theme in this ingress chart as well.

"an upset or shock caused by intervention of higher Power
Injury, accident"
Ebertin


Midpoints:
SU=MO=MA/PL

Both sun and moon in the mars/pluto midpoint.
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3%C2%B018'57.6%22N+95%C2%B051'14.4%22E/@3.316,95.854,3z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en

which ingress do you want to apply to the dec 26 2004 earthquake?
it looks like you are not sure!!

the epicentre of the earthquake is closer to the other end of the main island of indonesia... below is a chart for the 2003 libra ingress.. pluto is no longer exact on the descendant..

here is the ''2003'' chart below. thanks therese for pointing out my use of the 2015 chart with pluto in the same spot by angle!!


upload an image


Last edited by james_m on Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stefan



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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well pluto is still in the foreground. Which is in 10 degrees of the ascendant.

But I chose consciously Jakarta the capital for this chart.

from James Eshelmans "Sidereal Mundane astrology".

"Donald Bradley’s research in the 1950s concentrated mostly on natural disasters. He cast ingress
charts for the location of an event. Generally, this is the most logical, productive approach.
However, for the purposes of mundane astrology, a nation’s capital acts as the ego-hub of the
nation. A country may be fully expressed through its millions of citizen-cells, yet its ego-center
is in its capital. Experience shows that, most of the time, “as goes the capital, so goes the nation.”
This has become a larger issue in recent decades, especially with the 24-hour news cycle
pumped out through multiple channels. No longer are there many truly local events. Significant
events in the United States, for example, become national events within minutes-to-hours. Often
these local events show even better astrologically for the capital."








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Stefan



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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Therese for making me aware that the wrong year was used for the tsunami ingress chart. I mixed it up.
S
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Stefan



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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wrong chart which was for 2003.
But looking at 2003 for Jakarta show a major Terrorist bombing
at the luxury hotel Marriot (Manchester United's soccer team was about to check in later in the week.).

"The 2003 Marriott Hotel bombing occurred on 5 August 2003 in Mega Kuningan, South Jakarta, Indonesia. A suicide bomber detonated a car bomb outside the lobby of the JW Marriott Hotel, killing twelve people and injuring 150. Those killed were mostly Indonesian, with the exception of one Dutch man. The hotel was viewed as a Western symbol, and had been used by the United States embassy for various events.[1] The hotel was closed for five weeks and reopened to the public on 8 September."

The 2003 Capricorn ingress reflected this.

and

The cancer ingress 2003 some weeks Before the bombing have the Node Uranus Square angular. With the node exactly on the angle and Uranus in foreground.

Declinations:
A Mars, Pluto MC combination within one degree. With Pluto just 0'04' from the MC.

Declinations:
Mars 13'02' S
Pluto 13'30' S
MC 13'34' S

From " Sidereal Mundane astrology" by James Eshelman

Quote:
Mars-Pluto
A violent, ferocious, often explosive unleashing of force occurs with this aspect, manifesting
in several ways, including:
 BOMBS: Pluto frequently combines with Mars and Uranus for these events.
 VEHICLE EXPLOSIONS & COLLISIONS: In many of these examples, Mars is
strong and combined with Pluto.
 WARS & WARLIKE EVENTS: Close, foreground Mars-Pluto pairings are common.
 SHOOTING MASSACRES: With Mars-Uranus aspects, these are among the"
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 2004 quake chart posted by James is set for 2015 rather than 2004.

I think it's very interesting and important to compare ingress charts and ayanamsas. But there are so many variables such as location (epicenter or major cities affected for quakes, for example), and there are the various ingress chart used prior to an event. Astrologers of the Fagan school use a number of different ingress charts.

It's good to have quotes from James Eshelman's book, because he can be said to be the reigning expert on sidereal mundane charts. Thanks for the quotes, Stefan. (I believe that Eshelman's book is a free download from the Solunars forum. The book isn't in hard copy.)

I want to find more time to look at some of these charts. The ayanamsa question is really important. Using solar ingress charts for quakes in the past, Krishnamurti has seemed more accurate, but there are some charts here that contradict that finding. And it looks like declinations may be very important in ingress charts.
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