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Catastrophe's showed in Ingress chart - Ayanamsha question.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2907
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

therese,

thanks for pointing that out.. it has been changed..

stefan,

thanks for sharing yours and eshelmans views on mundane sidereal..
here is a link to his website with further links for others interested in reading his views on mundane astrology thru the sidereal glass.. i have yet to read it, but i plan on it..

http://www.solunars.com/link.htm
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks James

I am a newbie for this kind of aproach. So this thread is a bit like "learn as I go". Which is maybe not optimal. Then after awhile in the thread I read more about it, and also downloaded the book "Sidereal Mundane astrology" by Eshelman. Which like Therese pointed out i available as a free download.
It's a thick manual of 500 pages.
There is some concepts in there that I have not used before.
For example "west Point", "East Point", "Chart in Mundo" Et.c. I have not grasped these techniques yet. But I suspect that it can have something to do with the Declinations which seems to register quite effectively in these charts.
I think I will probably continue to use these charts later on as a potential useful tool for hinting at developments in specific areas of the earth.


Therese
Due to time limits I have not yet compared the different Ayanamshas for each events. But early on the Fagan-Allen Ayanamsha seemed to hit the angles with more precision. But more research and testing is sure needed.
I Believe Fagan-Allen ayanamsha was adjusted as a result of using charts like this. Doing many charts and compare adjusting continually as they did the research until they had the ayanamsh which seemed to be "IT".
(Correct me if I'm wrong there Therese).
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan wrote:
Quote:
Due to time limits I have not yet compared the different Ayanamshas for each events. But early on the Fagan-Allen Ayanamsha seemed to hit the angles with more precision. But more research and testing is sure needed.
I Believe Fagan-Allen ayanamsha was adjusted as a result of using charts like this. Doing many charts and compare adjusting continually as they did the research until they had the ayanamsh which seemed to be "IT".
(Correct me if I'm wrong there Therese).

Your question is a good one, Stefan, and the answer is somewhat complicated. There are several reasons why astrologers of the Fagan school settled on their S.V.P. (synetic vernal point) ayanamsa. I don’t have time to check all my references, so I’m writing this without noting dates.

Due to the research of academic scholars, Fagan and his followers decided that the Babylonian zodiac placed 15 degrees of Aldebaran and Antares at the exact centers of Taurus and Scorpio. But there have been additional articles and research since this decision in the last century, and this claim really can’t be supported.

There were three distinct stars that were used to mark the beginnings of Babylonian signs. Two of these stars align with the Lahiri/K zodiacs (beta Gemini at 29°28' K and delta Capricorn, Deneb Algedi at 29°47' Cap K to mark the beginning of Aquarius). One star aligns with the S.V.P., zeta Taurus, Altech at 0°02 Gemini. This of course is a precise hit for the S.V.P.

Neither Aldebaran nor Antares is mentioned in the star catalog lists that have so far been translated. (Reference: “Studies in Babylonian lunar theory: Part III: The introduction of the uniform zodiac”, John P. Britton, 2010.)

Then a great deal of emphasis is placed on the research of Donald Bradley who did statistical research on rainfall way back in (I think it was the 1950s?). Bradley adjusted the ayanamsa by 6 minutes, and this resulted in the S.V.P. tables. But no raw data was ever made public for this research, we can’t examine Bradley’s processes, and in my opinion, it can’t be used as a scientific basis for a zodiac. No scientist today would accept Bradley’s research without replication.

The Fagan school astrologers have taken Bradley’s research (without seeing any of the details) and run with it as the basis for their zodiac. Sidereal astrologers such as Jim Eshleman have calculated numerous mundane charts showing close planetary aspects to angles. There are three possible problems with these charts:

(1) No comparisons have been done with another zodiac.
(2) No comparison has been done on mundane charts for “non-events” to see if similar critical planets are near the angles.
(3) Several ingress charts are used for each event. Are all of them equally valid?

These are important research questions. Jim Eshleman has the habit in his illustrated charts of showing only the key planets, so these charts don’t show the complete planetary picture. But I haven’t carefully studied these charts, so am not qualified to offer an opinion. This is why comparing ingress charts using different ayanamsas is so interesting.

A problem with the S.V.P. ayanamsa for Jyotish astrologers is that varga charts are not accurate. So we need a lot more study of ingress charts.
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan

Have you ever looked into the development of the AIDs crisis. I remember I looked at some charts which tracked its progress and couldn't help but notice some correlations to ingresses of Pluto in sidereal Libra. There were several key developments with things like the naming of the disease and so on, and when I checked I did notice some correlations.

I can't remember more than this off hand now, but thought they could be interesting starting points for someone interested in examining these sidereally. I may be wrong, it was a while ago I looked into this, and I don't have the time at the moment to start looking back at those charts, but perhaps you're already aware of this?
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Paul,

Interesting. I will check it out. I was not aware of that.
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.


Massive flood in France, Cote d'azure last weekend.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/04/europe/france-french-riviera-flooding/

20 people dead as today. Retirement house for old people in Antibe
some people dead.

So this is actually at the time of the Jupiter-Neptune
opposition mundanely. Which are related to floods.
Recently transiting Mars have joined in to the party, and is part of the Jupiter Neptune aspect intensifying it.

I wanted to check it. And did a quick check.

Capricorn sidereal ingress for Antibe 2015

UR S.Node --90--MC (0'50' orb).
PL conjunct MC
(Uranus Square is angular which increased the risk of upheaval at this location ?)


Cancer sidereal solar ingress 2015 Antibe

NE is 8 degress from ascendant. = foreground.
SA --90--ASC. (2'30' orb)


Sidereal solar Virgo ingress 2015 18 sep.

ASC. 21' Leo
NE 12'59' AQA
JU 13' Leo

Jupiter and Neptune opposition is in the foreground across the ascendant axis in this chart. Although I would have liked it smack on the ascendant.


Now I decided to check the National chart of France with return charts.
(This chart from astrodienst. Used by Liz Green. I have no idea. I have not used it before.
http://www.astro.com/nat/natfr_e.htm

Lunar return chart French national chart 27 sep 2015








Neptune is in the whole sign 4th house (equal house IC) to the degree squaring the ascendant.
(Some other interesting angularities as well. Ketu on IC.)



S


Last edited by Stefan on Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Checking the Charlie Hebo terror days 7-9 jan 2015 with the
National French chart.

Show that Progressed MC opposite Pluto.
(natal mars pluto Square.)
So pluto on progressed IC seems fit with terror.

And transiting Neptune opposing prog. Pluto.

This was triggered by transiting Sun 135' sesquisquare to
these placement at the days of shooting.

This chart for France seems to be radical.

(Prog MC with Solar arc in RA method)
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now with the risk of being repetitive.



Quote:
Cancer sidereal solar ingress 2015 Antibe

NE is 8 degress from ascendant. = foreground.
SA --90--ASC. (2'30' orb)


Sidereal solar Virgo ingress 2015 18 sep.

ASC. 21' Leo
NE 12'59' AQA
JU 13' Leo

Jupiter and Neptune opposition is in the foreground across the ascendant axis in this chart. Although I would have liked it smack on the ascendant.



But
Setting the recent LUNAR ECLIPSE for Antibe:







So it seems that the Jupiter Neptune opposition is in foreground in the Eclipse chart as well. Similar to the cancer ingress and virgo ingress before the event.

So the Eclipse chart is matching the sidereal ingress charts....
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Stefan



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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.


Terror bombs in Ankara Turkey today.
86 dead so far !


Sidereal Cancer ingress 2015



Mars, Pluto and Uranus on the angles.


S





In Mundo chart show Pluto 0'.07' from MC




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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.

This is Turkey national charts Solar return.

Similar angularity there with Pluto right on IC.
And Uranus exactly setting at the DC.





Also the MC of the Solar return is exactly on National chart's Pluto.


S
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks stefan,

i am very saddened to hear about this.. do you have a time of the event for today? thanks.
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Stefan



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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - the papers give about 9am. That's what I've read.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan, I think you need to make some changes in how you are calculating ingress charts. They can't be set as transit charts. You have to begin with a base chart for the area (any current date), and then ask for the Solar Return, go to the Advance/Ingress option, and type in the ingress you want (such as 0Cancer00). Then you will get the right ingress chart. Here is the correct 2015 Fagan-Allen Cancer Ingress for Ankara, Turkey:



It's much easier to see planets on angles if you set the chart for "Equal House" rather than Whole Sign Houses.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't a catastrophic event, but a very important law was passed here in California on October 5. Governor Brown signed a bill allowing physicians to aid the terminally ill in dying. There are only four states at this time that allow physician aided death. I calculated the Virgo Ingress charts for both Krishnamurti and Fagan-Allen.



As usual, the K and F-A charts are fairly similar except for the Moon. I always consider not only the angular planets, but also the planets that closely aspect the angles or close planetary configurations. The signing of a bill would come under Mercury, and in the K chart Venus at the nadir aspects Mercury on the cusp of the 6th house. This is the most prominent aspect in the chart that touches an angle. Uranus aspects Mercury via the opposition.

In the F-A chart the Moon is angular on the 7th cusp aspected by Venus. The Moon is the most angular planet in the chart. Mercury isn't prominent in relation to an angle, within three degrees.

So in the K chart we have Venus sextile Mercury aspected by Uranus.

In the F-A chart there is Venus square the Moon on the 7th cusp. Does that describe the signing of a bill into law?

I think we can see that it can take a lot of research before we can claim one ayanamsa over another. It's a difficult puzzle.
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
Stefan, I think you need to make some changes in how you are calculating ingress charts. They can't be set as transit charts. You have to begin with a base chart for the area (any current date), and then ask for the Solar Return, go to the Advance/Ingress option, and type in the ingress you want (such as 0Cancer00). Then you will get the right ingress chart. Here is the correct 2015 Fagan-Allen Cancer Ingress for Ankara, Turkey:


Thanks Therese for that method. It's easier.
But in fact I checked again using my earlier method of casting a
event chart for the location and then using the animation with months, days, hours, minutes and seconds to get the chart. And this time I got
the correct chart for the Cancer ingress for Ankara, but with a 6 second difference from the chart you got from the Ingress module.

I also did go back and check the cancer Ingress for 9/11 New york, in the first post of this thread. And got there the same chart with the animation technique as the Ingress method.
So I think this was perhaps more due to some haste in my animation ?

I think the rest of the charts in the thread would be correct. But your method is better, and it's great that you gave me this way of doing it, with
Solar Fire. We have the same software.


S
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