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General Comments on Ingress Charts

Whereas I can see the logic of casting equinox and solstice charts that mark the cardinal signs in the tropical zodiac, I don't see a logical reason for making the sidereal cardinal sign ingress charts of special importance because they don't mark specific solar rhythm points from our view here on earth. Also there is a three month period if we're looking only at cardinal ingress charts (in either zodiac). To be scientifically correct, we'd have to look at all significant events in each three month period from one cardinal ingress to the next.

If we consider all ingresses into sidereal signs as equally important, than the period is shortened to only one month for significant events. It's much easier to catalog events within that short period of time. This is why I've never given sidereal cardinal ingress charts any more emphasis than the other eight ingresses of the Sun into signs.

Of course my comments fall on deaf ears among Fagan school astrologers. But it never hurts to take multiple approaches to investigating ingress charts. I'm only giving my personal opinion here, so I don't mean to criticize Stefan's approach on this thread.

The angles are said to be supremely important in ingress charts. So traditionally we look at:

(1) Planets very close to angular cusps (Asc, Desc, MC, IC)
(2) Planets making very close aspects to angular cusps

Because ingress charts are very precisely related to the earth's geographic areas, any other planets are given little or no attention unless they closely aspect planets in the above positions. Then their influence is combined with the significant planets that relate to chart angles.

Therese
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

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Guatemala City Mudslide

Here are the Krishnamurti and Fagan-Allen Virgo ingress charts for the Guatemala City mudslide that (to date, October 10, 2015) has killed close to 300 people. On October 1 heavy rains caused the side of a towering hill to break loose suddenly and crash down on the village on the outskirts of Guatemala City.
Image
As usually happens, the K and F-A cusps are close, but in this case planetary aspects to angles are closer in the K chart:

Saturn is in partile square within one minute to the MC. The Saturn/MC orb in the F-A chart is about 2.5 degrees.

The Jupiter/Neptune opposition is at the zenith/nadir in both charts, but the orb to the ascendant is closer in the K chart. Jupiter in this chart is the 8th lord and disposits both Uranus and Pluto. (I haven't yet made up my mind about the importance of house lords or dispositors in ingress charts.)

The K Moon near the 6th cusp ties in with the angular Neptune (trine) and Jupiter at the nadir (sextile). In the F-A chart the Moon has moved to 23? of Libra, so is far out of orb to both the ascendant and MC.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

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therese,

thanks for your comments here.. i happen to share your viewpoint, but haven't commented on this.. however james eshelman has gone to the work of investigating this in his own way and i was curious to see the basis for it. he converts the charts into an earth connected framework - rising and setting of the planets via the prime vertical analogue feature on solar fire which i also have, and i think it is worth exploring.. but i do share your viewpoint on this as the only way ingress charts make sense to me is in relation to the sun-earth relationship as opposed to the sun-sky relationship..

perhaps stefan or martin have some unique insight on this they could share?

34
Thanks for your thoughts...


I'm still evaluating these charts so I have not much to say about it.

But in astrology in general much of what we do habitually is often quite illogical imo. But empirical astrology done over time have proved that even methods without much logic in it often seems to functioning. I am thinking of for example Arabic parts, Converse progressions or converse primary directions for example...or the Terms. Some traditional astrologers seems to give greater value to the 'Lot of fortune' than other factors in the charts which might seems to be a funny way of doing it. But if it works then....

Academic evaluating thoughts have significance, but should perhaps not be the determining factor of what should be done and not done imo. In that case much of can be of value is at risk of being overseen.

I have become to have respect for the empiric work of these Sidereal astrologers testing these techniques and Ayanamsha.
These charts seems to be powerful. They creates often the kind of intuitive feel that they are spot on in many instances that is worth to further explore.

In a chart the angular houses are the pillar of the chart. 1st,4th,7th,10th.
This might correlate to that also the sidereal Cardinal signs being more influential in ingress charts ?

35
hi stefan,

you have shared some great connections to events that have happened.. i remain open to these ideas, even though i don't understand the logic behind it.. for me ingress charts and the concept of an ingress is about the earth sun relationship... perhaps framing it in terms of the sidereal backdrop makes sense to someone but i can't get my head around it.. that said - the connections you've shared are impressive.. i suppose our comments are now more philosophical in nature so i will stop now.. maybe someone can explain the mechanics to me... i go back to the idea that james eshelman shared about the concept of something 'rising'.. in order to properly see what is rising - an earth based phenomenon, one would best see what is happening on this level thru a prime vertical analogue chart - especially with the example he used in his book with the author of sherlock holmes books - forget his name - where pluto looked much different by zodiac then by pv.. so, perhaps it isn't only about the zodiac - which brings us back to the sidereal/tropical differences being less relevant.. well you can see i have said all i can say on this for now!!

36
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World war II

World war II begun 1 sep 1939 with first shot in the Poland invasion by Hitler.



In this chart the planet of War Mars is extraordinary:

--- Mars is OOB (Out-of-bounds) near it's most extreme declination.
-26'S28'
https://anzaskies.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/mars-cycles/

--- Mars is exalted in Capricorn.

--- Mars is exalted in Capricorn in the Navamsha chart too(Vargottama)

But more interesting might be from the wiewpoint of this topic here
is that:

--- Mars is located at 0' degree Capricorn (Fagan-Allen Ayanamsha).

Thus at the sidereal Cardinal sign Capricorn. Thus Mars is in fact exactly transiting conjunction the Sun in the sidereal Capricorn solar ingress chart. And opposing the Sun in the Cancer ingress chart. More about these charts later...
This seems to me interesting that at such an important event in history, the planet of War is "triggering" the Sidereal ingress charts.




Image

In Part 3 ? Astrological Timing, Nicholas Campion presents the relation between different charts of the World War II, this time emphasizing the position of angles. One can find here the charts for Hitler?s order to invade Poland (31 August 1939, 12:30 MET, Berlin), the first shot in WW II (1 September 1939, 04:17 MET, Danzig) and the final surrender of all German forces (8 May 1945, 24:00, MET, Berlin).

Stefan

37
Stefan, a problem I see with this war chart is that Venus (peace) is near the ascendant, and Mars doesn't closely aspect either the Ascendant or MC. So the usual angularity rules don't apply. I haven't studied war charts, so this is only my quick comment about the chart.

It would seem that Saturn and Ketu in Aries are more descriptive of the event as they are in close aspect to the ascendant. (Saturn as 7th lord) Oh...Saturn and Mars are in mutual reception! So Saturn in partile aspect to the ascendant brings the energy of Mars to the forefront. That is why Mars is so important in the chart, aside from its entry into Capricorn. When sidereal malefics are exalted, they're not necessarily "good," only powerful.

Therese
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

38
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Yes - that Mutual reception was a great insight. I didn't see it...

But I agree that the chart seems bleek at the first sight with venus at the ascendant.

Personally I Think the British official declaration of war to germany is much more telling ! That Grand cross is really malicious !




And comparing the chart to Hitler's is fascinating....

(War chart to the left in Fagan-Allen and Hitlers in krishnamurti,
not intentionally. But I use krishnamurti or Lahiri with personal charts).
Image


[/quote]At 11 O'clock (am) British PM, Neville Chamberlain publicly delivered his Ultimatum Speech
" Quote:

Note: Included in the speech: "...This morning, the British Ambassador in Berlin handed the German Government a final note, stating that unless we heard from them by 11 O'clock that they were prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received and that consequently this country is at war with Germany..."
Image

40
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So the charts of the Capricorn Ingress and Cancer Ingress chart for London 1939 the year of getting into the World war II is posted now. No angular planets in a strong way. But there is other connections to the angles that are much interesting. And since the war is worldwide and perhaps most telling is to look at the planetary aspects for the Ingress charts for that year
which was reflecting worldwide war and conflicts at that time in history.
The thread about this should not feel complete without incuding them.

In the eminent book "Mundane astrology" by Campion and Baigent which is seen as a standard reference work I Think. There is a reference to the Sidereal Cancer ingress chart (chart to the right below).
"If one chart will convince us of the sidereal zodiac and that the Fagan-Bradley ayanamsa is correct, then the Can-Solar Ingress for London on July 17 1939 is it!"
"Because the interplanetary aspects of any mundane charts are common to every place in the world, the all-important factor becomes the angles. Any planet which is 1-2 degrees of an angle is likely to play a marked role in the period ahead for an ingress chart. Equally, any body configuring the AS/MC midpoint by -0-, 45, 90, 135, or 180 within an orb of 2 degrees should be carefully noted. This often neglected point is of the greatest importance in all charts since it links together both angles and therefore gives a double intensity to the planetary bodies involved."
The midpoint of AS/MC is 6'57' Cancer.
The malicious planetary pattern involving Mars, Saturn,Moon pluto is affecting this point.

The partile Moon mars Saturn pluto aspects influencing the whole World is strong...



Then when looking at the Capricorn Ingress 14 jan 1939 some similarities are present.
A Close Moon Mars Connection. Mars is squaring the AS/MC midpoint.
Mars-45-ASC Mars-135-MC
In declination Mars // Node Pluto//MC.

Image


Stefan

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Stefan quoted:
"If one chart will convince us of the sidereal zodiac and that the Fagan-Bradley ayanamsa is correct, then the Can-Solar Ingress for London on July 17 1939 is it!"
"Because the interplanetary aspects of any mundane charts are common to every place in the world, the all-important factor becomes the angles. Any planet which is 1-2 degrees of an angle is likely to play a marked role in the period ahead for an ingress chart. Equally, any body configuring the AS/MC midpoint by -0-, 45, 90, 135, or 180 within an orb of 2 degrees should be carefully noted. This often neglected point is of the greatest importance in all charts since it links together both angles and therefore gives a double intensity to the planetary bodies involved."
Stefan, where did you find this quote, and who are you quoting? Please give the book, author and page number.

Thanks,
Therese
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

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HURRICANE PATRICIA MAKES LANDFALL IN MEXICO

Hurricane Patricia, the strongest hurricane ever recorded in the Western Hemisphere, made landfall in the Mexican state of Jalisco as a Category 5 storm. The storm has caused landslides and flooding, but no deaths or major damage have been reported. The Krishnamurti and Fagan-Allen Libra Ingress charts here are set for Manzanillo, the nearest major city. Comments on the charts are below.
Image
These charts indicate that it's not time just yet to jump on the Fagan-Allen bandwagon. In the Krishnamurti Libra Ingress the Moon near the ascendant is in partile square to the M.C. squared by Mars and Jupiter within two degrees of the M.C. Uranus in Pisces is trine the Moon with a 2 degree orb.

The Fagan-Allen Ingress has Jupiter and Mars closer to the M.C. by a degree, but the Moon is out of the picture. The Venus-Neptune opposition is closer in degree in the Krishnamurti chart.

It's only by comparing many charts for events that one ayanamsa or the other might show the greatest promise for catastrophic events. It's understandable that an astrologer who uses either of these two ayanamsas wouldn't bother to look at a chart using another ayanamsa. But a comparison is very necessary in order to find the final answer.

EDIT: 24 October 2015
On the Solunars site Jim Eshelman has this to say about the Fagan-Allen Hurricane Patricia charts. Note especially his comment about the Libra ingress chart above which he calls the Libsolar. (As far as I know astrologers of the Fagan school never bother to check the Krishnamurti charts. Also little or no attention is given to trine aspects.)
These charts look more like a minor hurricane at best, not a "worst ever."
The Libsolar is tepid and essentially irrelevant. I'd have felt better if it were fully dormant.

Jim Eshelman on Solunars
Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm