Paris attacks / French National Chart

1
Hello

I decided to have a look at the chart for the start of the the attacks in Paris (at the Stade de France in St Denis bordering on Paris "intra-muros", 21:17 on 13/9/15). I also compared with the new Moon chart for the 11/11 (the Muslim new Moon with first visible crescent was on the 13th, day of the attacks), with the total lunar eclipse on 28/9 at 3:50:28 AM (Paris), and with charts commonly used for the foundation of the French Republic. Here is a link to a SF triwheel (couldn't work out how to get the image itself on, sorry):

http://postimg.org/image/869i9tqf1/

The chart of the attacks by itself is most noticeable for:
- MC just 30-odd arc minutes from the SN;
- Mars and NN on the IC with Mars (having just crossed into tropical Libra) applying (5?) to Venus;
- Saturn sextile (7') Venus;
- Moon applying trine (>2?) to retro Uranus.
Also Mars sinister higher quincunx (20') to Saturn (interesting, considered a full special aspect in Indian astrology) (just to mention, I find tropical seems to give better results over time with mundane, while sidereal, I think, works better for people).

The new Moon chart did not immediately add much that I noticed, but the eclipse chart is very interesting when compared to the attacks.

For France, I have taken the foundation of the 1st Republic (generally given as 9:18 on 22/9/1792, when the new "Year 1" was announced - officially defined a year later as the epochal date "Year 1", starting with the Autumn equinox, with a new decimal calendar and with new names of months). So I think this is a pretty good starting point for the modern French Republic. The foundation of the 5th Republic in 1958 is more usually used, but three options seem to be available, promulgation, signature or midnight of the first full day, which is problematic, and I could not find such interesting correspondences for any as for the 1st Republic). I read somewhere that something was signed at 9:18, but can't find the reference - but in any case, 9:18 LAT puts the Sun exactly on the equinox point, so it seems appropriate (LMT is about 10m later).

Lunar eclipse 28/9/15 on 1st Republic:
Asc and Venus conj <1? 1st Rep Uranus
Asc and Venus conj 4? 1st Rep MC
PF conj <1? 1st Rep Pluto
Venus square <1? 1st Rep Pluto

Attacks chart on 1st Republic: (nb Mars/Sun exchange):
Mars conj <1? 1st Rep Sun (Mars having just crossed over NN and into Libra)
Sun conj 5? 1st Rep Mars
Moon conj 1st Rep Moon

When the attacks end at 23:40, the Asc has just passed the 1st Rep MC and is nearly conjunct the eclipse Asc. The MC has come to conjunct with eclipse MC.

Graham
Last edited by Graham F on Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

2
I wrote that eclipse Asc , nearly conjunct 1st Republic MC will have passed that MC when attacks end at 23h40 - of course! I have now corrected this. i meant to say that by 23:40, the Asc of the attacks chart will have passed the 1st Rep MC. Also, that Asc will be conjunct eclipse Asc, and the MC will have come to conjunction with eclipse MC. I have corrected.

Here is a link to quadriwheel, showing also the end of the attacks (end of siege of Bataclan concert hall).

http://postimg.org/image/z9l412c25/

Graham

3
Hello,
Thank you for this analysis.
Concerning the Chart of France (I am french) it?s certainly a very difficult choice. I trust you because Mundane Astrology is a domain that I don?t know much.
I think that the French Revolution was a big turn in French history, and so your choice seems relevant!
Concerning the 5th Republic it?s a foundation in a way but in my opinion more a stage than a real foundation.

Well, one time I read an article where an astrologer took (for the Chart of the France foundation) the moment of the execution of Louis XVI, the last king of France.
I remember that I was a bit amused about this, because it is rather macabre for a foundation, but nevertheless, when we think about this, it wasn?t a stupid choice. Anyway this precise moment is wellknown!
The Chart of the 1st Republic seems more constructive!

5
Thanks James for the link and other pointers, and to Midheaven for remarks. I hadn't thought of the guillotining of Louis XVI as a chart for France, but it does have a precise time, which is handy - 21 janvier 1793 at 10h22. Will try to have a look at that chart, would be interesting to see how how it might tie in with the 1st Republic or other charts.

It looks like the September partial solar eclipse preceding the total lunar one was also very loaded, if not more so, the second reinforcing the first. The fact that the solar eclipse nodes had practically "hovered" and returned to nearly the same point the day of the attacks (2 months later) as Stockinger notes, would suggest that the true nodes are more useful than the mean ones, as I've generally found (both of us used true). The conjunction is 3?15 apart mean, 1?15 true (Solar Fire).

Graham

6
Just had a look at the chart for the execution of Louis XVI - it's very interesting indeed, both in relation to the chart for the 1st Republic and to the eclipses preceding the recent attacks, and the attacks themselves.
It also ties in remarkably well with Nicholas Campion's chart for the 5th Republic - 6:30pm on 6 October 1958, 2 days after the promulgation and the day after the publication of the new constitution. The 6th was the date of the official sealing (application of the Grand Sceau de France). The problem is, I haven't been able to find any information about the time of the sealing, and Campion's chart looks almost suspiciously right in relation to the death of Louis - same Asc, same MC. Makes you wonder... I'd love to know if there are any other sources for the time, as other factors in the chart would definitley suggest its the right day, at least, with respect to recent events.
Graham
(triwheel 1st Republic / death of Louis / Campion's 5th republic chart):
http://i.imgur.com/L4cWNCg.jpg?2

7
I am moving some comments from another thread I made to here as they seem to fit better on this thread.

Mark wrote:
Logically though if we want to use a national chart I think the most logical candidate national charts are those for a founding of a nation or its most recent constitutional government chart. So charts for the 1st Republic or 5th Republic both have their appeal.

Its difficult to identify a chart for the founding of France. But there seems little doubt that modern France emerged as a result of the Revolution of 1789 and the subsequent declaration of a Republic with the abolition of the monarchy on 21 September 1792, by the newly established National Convention. The changeover from a monarchy to a republic seems a pivotal change in France which has left a legacy in French national culture to this day.
However, our French member Midheaven makes a good point which challenges using a chart for the first Republic or the execution of Louis XVI.

Midheaven wrote:
Well, concerning the execution of Louis XVI it was a political act which put an end to the traditional monarchy (with a king living at Versailles) of the "Ancien R?gime". But even though the 1st Republic was a time in France where there was no monarchy or empire, this time didn?t last forever and we have had other monarchs in France after the french Revolution. The real last monarch was the emperor Napoleon III (until 1871).

There was a lot of stories (and movies) concerning Louis XVI (and Marie-Antoinette) and the french Revolution, it?s cultural. Probably people from the UK ought to think that it is a very odd thing to guillotine his king...
It was a long time ago, we have evolved
Midheaven has fair point. The monarchy did return to France after the revolutionary period so that the 1st Republic didn't usher in an uninterrupted period of Republican government for France. So arguably, France only became irrevocably a republic on 4th September 1870 when the Second Empire ended and the 3rd Republic was Proclaimed by Leon Gambetta. The period of the Third Republic also saw the final disestablishment of the Roman Catholic Church in 1905 from which the modern secular France we know today became the norm.

On the other hand I think the events of 1789-1793 initiated a decisive process that moved France to become a secular and republican state. The two forces battled it out in France for over a century. But ultimately, the process began in the revolutionary period triumphed.

I have concerns about using an execution chart. Usually, national charts are based on a de facto or de jure change of government. Although, Campion has promoted proclamation charts as another key moment. In political terms the monarchy had already lost de facto power before 1793 and de jure power had also shifted to the National Convention.

Still, to be fair I haven't really studied the execurtion chart of Louis XVI so my objection is purely theoretical at this point.

Another chart I have examined is the Storming of the Bastille. But so far I haven't found it that resonant to events. In contrast the chart for the creation of the 1st Republic does seem to respond well.

I am putting together a list of key historical events in French history from 1789 onwards as a tool to assist other astrologers testing out charts.


Midheaven wrote:
Probably people from the UK ought to think that it is a very odd thing to guillotine his king...
Not really. After all the English pioneered the idea of executing their King! Although the English used an axe rather than a guillotine for regicide:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/charlesI.htm

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

8
Thanks Mark for moving stuff from the other thread.

I'm not suggesting that the chart for the execution of Louis XVI should be used as the national chart for France, but it looks like a significant chart for France, in terms of recent events.

I agree that the founding of the nation would be the most logical and usual, and would opt for either the 1st Republic (I'm happy with 9:18 on 22/9/1792) or the 5th Republic in 1958.

My problem with the 5th Republic is that there are several options. One of them is the chart given by Nicholas Campion for the fixing of the official seal on consitution at 6:30 on October 6th 1958. It seems to me to fit recent events better than charts for the 4th or 5th October. But I'm suspicious because it tallies so well with the chart of the guillotining of Louis XVI (21/1/1793 at 10:22) which is precisely attested according to various non-astrological references. That chart (in LAT time) has EXACTLY the same Asc and MC as Campion's suggested 5th Republic seal-signing chart.

I wonder if Campion didn't have an eye on that chart when settling for the 6:30 time, which is very late for French officialdom - all the civil servants would have gone home! So I wouldn't feel comfortable using it without some sort of supporting reference, and I can't find one.

What I'm asking is: does anyone know of how Campion might have arrived at the 6:30 time, on 6/10/1958? Does he perhaps mention anything in his book on mundane (I don't have it)?

Thanks for any help.

Graham

9
according to nic campions book 2004 edition
"the first ceremonial moment of the new Republic occurred when the State Seal was affixed to the Constitution at approximately 630pm on 6 October 1958, in Paris." that is the short explanation to your question.. cheers - james


Graham F wrote: What I'm asking is: does anyone know of how Campion might have arrived at the 6:30 time, on 6/10/1958? Does he perhaps mention anything in his book on mundane (I don't have it)?

Thanks for any help.

Graham

10
James_M wrote:
according to nic campions book 2004 edition
"the first ceremonial moment of the new Republic occurred when the State Seal was affixed to the Constitution at approximately 630pm on 6 October 1958, in Paris." that is the short explanation to your question.. cheers - james
Ah James beat me to it!

However, Nicholas Campion does have more to say on this chart. In particular at the end of The Book of World Horoscopes (2004) Campion gives a reference to this chart on page 618 of the book where he explains his source for this idea:
G,T,7 October 1958. the horoscope for the fixing of the great seal is of prime symbolic significance and has been used as a national chart by French astrologers , According to one such Alexander Volguine, writing in the AJ, the seal was fixed to the Constitution sometime between 6.20pm. and 6.45pm in Paris.
So the source for this chart is apparently the Ukrainian-French astrologer Alexander Volguine. Campion doesn't mention which issue of AJ (Astrological Journal of UK?) this appeared. Campion seems to have halved the difference between the two proposed times.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

11
Graham wrote:
I agree that the founding of the nation would be the most logical and usual, and would opt for either the 1st Republic (I'm happy with 9:18 on 22/9/1792) or the 5th Republic in 1958.
Actually, Nicholas Campion gives a different date and time for the First Republic chart. To quote from the Book of World Horoscopes (2004) page 119:
The First French Republic was proclaimed over three years later at a session of the National Assembly on 21 September 1792, this date being known subsequently as day 1 of year 1 of the Republic initiating a series of French dominated republics across Europe.

The proclamation was the third decree of the day, and was passed shortly before the session broke up at 4.00pm LMT. An estimate based on the length of reports and speeches points to 3.30pm, as the approximate time of the proclamation , which came into effect immediately, and chart 106 is set for that time in Paris. Book of World Horoscopes, 2004, page 119
This 3.30pm chart gives an ASC of 26'33 Capricorn (Tropical Zodiac).

This is the chart the UK astrologer Marjorie Orr has been using.

I assume the chart you are using is for the first new sitting of the National Assembly on 22/09/1792 as an officially republican body the next day.

That seems to be the first date of the Revolutionary calendar that was decided as commencing on 22/09/1792 retrospectively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Re ... n_Calendar

However, it seems clear the National Assembly proclamation abolishing the monarchy in France came at the end of business the day before on 21/09/1792:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamat ... e_monarchy

Campion also suggests a second possible chart for the First Republic:
The Republic was then proclaimed in public with great ceremony and a procession through the streets of Paris beginning at 9.00am on 26 September 1792. Book of World Horoscopes, 2004, page 119
This second chart gives an ASC of 6'50 Scorpio (Tropical Zodiac)

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

12
Hi Mark
Yes, I knew there were other options for the 1st Republic, as I think I mentioned earlier.
You wrote:
I assume the chart you are using is for the first new sitting of the National Assembly on 22/09/1792 as an officially republican body the next day.
That seems to be the first date of the Revolutionary calendar that was decided as commencing on 22/09/1792 retrospectively.
That's right - and 9:18 LAT was also when the Sun was exactly on the autumn equinox point, deemed to start the new year of the new epoch. (Astronomers and mathematicians were associated with the design of the new calendar.)
From Wikipedia "French Republican Calendar":
The calendar is often called the "French Revolutionary Calendar" because it was created during the Revolution, but this is somewhat of a misnomer. Indeed, there was initially a debate as to whether the calendar should celebrate the Great Revolution, which began in July 1789, or the Republic, which was established in 1792. Immediately following 14 July 1789, papers and pamphlets started calling 1789 year I of Liberty and the following years II and III. It was in 1792, with the practical problem of dating financial transactions, that the legislative assembly was confronted with the problem of the calendar. Originally, the choice of epoch was either 1 January 1789 or 14 July 1789. After some hesitation the assembly decided on 2 January 1792 that all official documents would use the "era of Liberty" and that the year IV of Liberty started on 1 January 1792. This usage was modified on 22 September 1792 when the Republic was proclaimed and the Convention decided that all public documents would be dated Year I of the French Republic. The decree of 2 January 1793 stipulated that the year II of the Republic began on 1 January 1793; this was revoked with the introduction of the new calendar, which set 22 September 1793 as the beginning of year II. The establishment of the Republic was used as the epochal date for the calendar; therefore, the calendar commemorates the Republic, not the Revolution.
Years appear in writing as Roman numerals (usually), with epoch 22 September 1792, the beginning of the "Republican Era" (the day the French First Republic was proclaimed, one day after the Convention abolished the monarchy). As a result, Roman Numeral I indicates the first year of the republic, that is, the year before the calendar actually came into use. By law, the beginning of each year was set at midnight, beginning on the day the apparent autumnal equinox falls at the Paris Observatory.
Because of the midnight rule, perhaps 22/9/1792 (or 23/9, the first midnight after equinox?) could also be used. I can see why people stick to great conjunctions and ingresses for mundane work...

The Republican calendar was abolished by Napoleon from 1/1/1806, but I think the autumn equinox start may already have been dropped by 1801, when the Catholic church was reinstated and Easter celebrated again.

Graham