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Quick question about the Joys of the planets

 
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Lazarus



Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 88

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:15 am    Post subject: Quick question about the Joys of the planets Reply with quote

I'm wondering if a planet in its joy and of a good dignity is akin in terms of its effects to it being angular and in good dignity or if it is better or worse. For example the a planet in the 9th is said to have more accidental dignity than if it were in the 2nd or the 8th. Zoller says that in general angular houses manifest things 100%, succedent houses 50%, and cadent 25%. Obviously the 9th breaks that rule being stronger than the 2nd and 8th. So is it the same with Joy? Does the Moon in good dignity and in the third for example manifest better than if it were the same zodiacal state but angular? Does it manifest things better than if it were in the 11th or 5th and of a good state, etc? Or Mars in Aries in the 6th, etc? Does Joy change the nature of the house, meaning does it override the quality of the house (angular, succedent, cadent)? Would the Moon well disposed in the 3rd be more powerful than a planet peregrine or with little dignity say in the 10th?

A lot of questions here I realize but I just wanted to cover as much ground as is possible. If someone could answer even some of them or at least answer them in a way that deals with the essence of what I am asking I would be very grateful. Thanks.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazarus, the only real way to answer your questions must be the actual study of horoscopes (with biographies) that contain the various planetary and sign positions you ask about. Otherwise it's all only theory. Then, of course, you have to define the house system you are using, how much of an orb to leave for angularity, etc.

It's a sad statement about astrology that with all our modern software and technology, hardly any astrological basics have actually been thoroughly tested. Lots of talk, little research. Here in the States the American Federation of Astrologers (AFA) has begun to encourage research by offering small grants for research projects. It remains to be seen if this approach will be successful.
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Lazarus



Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 88

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:22 pm    Post subject: Theory Reply with quote

Yes I understand that and agree but one needs a solid theoretical understanding of these things so that one can properly test them. What I am looking for here on this forum is someone who is a long standing practitioner of traditional/medieval astrology who can tell me not only what some older astrologers have written concerning the subject but what they would recommend based on the reading of many charts while using the Joys. In the mean time I will continue to take note of what I see as I read charts.
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
... who can tell me not only what some older astrologers have written concerning the subject but what they would recommend based on the reading of many charts while using the Joys.


I've seen almost nothing about the joys written by an old author. Usually what is written is little more than telling the reader what planet joys in what house. No less a figure than Bonatti tell us things like this:

Quote:
Venus rejoices in the 5th house because it is the house of joy and delight and dancing, and she signifies this; therefore she rejoices in it, because the rest of the houses do not signify this.


Not too helpful. The other planets are similarly described. The joys are the houses that have analogy with the planet and no other house has that analogy. OK now what? You're pretty much left on your own. Morinus was big on analogy, but I can't find anywhere that he referenced the joys at all. A planet that has an analogy with the house is more certain to bring about the promise or potential of that house. But the joys will be outweighed by the sign and aspects. Venus in Aries in the 5th is not the same as Venus in Libra in the 5th and both are different from Venus in Pisces in the 5th.

The joys may have been some kind of early rulership system, but that implies that houses are around longer than we thought. I kind of doubt they are a make it or break it kind of position. The influence, for good or for ill, is probably minimal. It is a minor accidental dignity, and probably nothing more.

You might find the article on the joys in this magazine of interest. The download is free:

http://media.wix.com/ugd/314a85_8c6a45ce16d540a28fb518c5e9e8f748.pdf



Last edited by Tom on Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lazarus



Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 88

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:51 am    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

That indeed gives me a better idea of how to approach them. The link you posted seems to be broken though.
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3509
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The link works for me. Perhaps I copied it incorrectly. Try this:

http://media.wix.com/ugd/314a85_8c6a45ce16d540a28fb518c5e9e8f748.pdf
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
The link works for me. Perhaps I copied it incorrectly. Try this:

http://media.wix.com/ugd/314a85_8c6a45ce16d540a28fb518c5e9e8f748.pdf


Thanks for the link(s), Tom.

Both are working!
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The distinction is that the predominator becomes the apheta when you want to "release" it from its fixed position and allow it to move through the chart using primary directions. So it is like describing the action of what you do with the predominator once you've found it


I think this was accidentally posted on the wrong thread
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: England

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spammer Tom - posting gibberish copied from other posts to get exposure for the commercial link in his sign-off. Has done the same on 5 other posts so I am deleted them now and blitzing the account.
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Tom
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Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't make sense to me either and I only got as far as apheta. I thought it might have been intended for elsewhere. Glad you caught it.
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