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turkey - 2016 update
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2710
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:19 am    Post subject: turkey - 2016 update Reply with quote

i had posted a thread on turkey about 4 years ago which can be seen here -
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6671

i continue to pay fairly close attention to this area of the world and was thinking of doing a post on iran just the other day too, but will focus on turkey here again as i feel it is important.. since the time i started the previous thread, turkey has seemed to have come unraveled on some fundamental level.. perhaps all the tension with the civil war in syria has been an important part of this.. perhaps erdogans leadership style and abilities have also fed into this.. it is hard to understand any one cause for what appears to be a general malaise that has hit turkey, but i think it is fairly obvious to see that it is experiencing a real challenge to itself at present regardless of knowing the specific reason for all of it.. lets hope my subjectivity is entering the picture here and colouring my viewpoint erroneously..

looking at the astro for turkey for the moment, i continue to work with the chart that i was using in the previous thread - oct 29 1923 ankara, turkey - 8:30 pm - 7 cancer 47 ascendant..

the close proximity of mars-pluto on the ascendant angle continues to be highlighted here a number of different ways... most obvious is the ongoing opposition of pluto in capricorn to it's natal position close to the cancer ascendant.. in the shooting down of the russian su-24 on november 24th 2015, the transit of mars returning to it's natal position at approx 7 libra 29 again emphasized this conflictual part of turkeys national chart.. the solar arc directions at this time - which often seem to reflect primary directions - have sa ascendant at 11 libra squared onto sa mars at 10 capricorn - both moving into close contact with the natal pattern involving mars-pluto square on the natal ascendant.. the conflict this triggered with russia has gone downhill only with no end in site.. it is impacting their tourism industry significantly and who knows what else..


it seems to me that turkey is reaching a breaking point allowing syrian refugees into turkey, in spite of the 3 billion $ euros or however much europe is giving turkey to continue to support there arrival and requirements.

at the same time, i did a post on erdogan and hollande - turkey and france leaders respectively - pointing out how erdogans sun and mars configuration is being caught up in the neptune/square square transit... you can read that here - http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8956

it really seems to me that erdogan is between a rock and a hard place.. some might argue that he has unintentionally put himself in this position.. regardless of how one wants to view it... i would like to say that i can see an end to the difficulties turkey and erdogan is facing at present, but i don't see it astrologically at this time..

saturn transit will do a station at 16 sag 24 pretty well exactly square the midheaven degree at 16 pisces 20 - end of march 2016. the eclipse cycle here with north node moving thru virgo - same sign it is in for turkeys 1923 chart emphasizes the eclipse data for this year which suggests this is an important and potentially fateful year for turkey.. the sept 1 2016 is especially interesting astrologically in how it overlaps the turkey chart and erdogans chart so strongly.. i have no idea how any of this is going to play out, but it seems that both erdogan and turkey are between a rock and a hard place at this point in time and i see no resolution to any of it at this time either..

let me know if anyone would like to see any of the charts i make mention of..
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2710
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


upload gif from url

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Development_Party_%28Turkey%29

this is the party that erdogan presently heads.. it would seem to be a critical component to political power and erdogans position at present too..

it would be great to have a more specific time for the start of this party.. i did try to contact Öner Döşer on facebook to ask him a question on a chart for someone else in turkey but never heard back.. i guess he is too busy teaching astrology classes... it is a shame i don't speak turkish, or i might be able to get more concrete data more easily...

the eclipse cycle this year hits this chart pretty hard -> sept 1 2016 solar eclipse and the lunar eclipse on sept 16th especially..
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is a chart for turkeys 2nd in command (prime minister) ahmet davuloglu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Davuto%C4%9Flu
who is frequently being quoted in the msm, or local turkish media.. the fact he has a birthdate the same day as erdogan is only made more interesting by his mars in almost exact opposition to erdogan's.... in my life i have found i work well with men who have mars in the sign opposite my own.. it would appear to be at work with these 2 men as well as they have had a working relationship for some time...


img hosting

my thing is trying to understand the leadership at present in turkey better... now, it would be more favourable if i had more exact birth times, as opposed to working with 12 noon for both of them, but it is a starting point and quite revealing in a round about way.. below is the composite for erdogan and davuloglu... as it turns out the eclipse data is hitting davuloglu and erdogans chart in a very pronounced way this year and you can see this also via the composite chart below... for anyone interested - this is something we can consider in retrospect after the year is out! i think it is an important year for turkey and for these 2 men in particular.. i think things are not going to be the same in a years time.. i don't know if they will remain in power.. i am tempted to go out on a limb and make this a prediction, but i don't need to as this is the drift of my post obviously!


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james_m



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Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the chart for ankara has mars-saturn right on the ascendant.. for damascus it comes with ascendant at 16 sag.. ankaras ascendant also grabs the neptune, whereas damascus asc moves towards venus a bit more.. midheaven is virgo for ankara, but libra for syria.. mercury is about 6 days away from going retrograde..


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Wolfgang



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 158
Location: Wr. Neudorf, Austria

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Turkey in Ingress *ACG* Reply with quote

Hi,

you can see in Ingress Charts from 2015 (Aries, Capricorn) very easy that Turkey will have some problems. In this charts always Uranus stand on IC. In Capricorn-Ingress 2015 exact. With special technic as described by Ben dykes in his book (Astrology of the World II p38), which also Morin used, you can find easy the hit days.







Wolfgang
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi wolfgang,

thanks for offering your astro insights here.. thanks for the reminder of the method suggested in ben dykes 'astrology of the world 2'....i think you are referring to page 37, with the example provided on page 38.. i was unsatisfied with the example used personally...

on the other hand, the example you've given seems to work well going from the cap ingress in 2015 to the event on the ground in feb 2016 ankara... my problem is with only using events from the past to strengthen an ideological position.. i think it is incumbent on an astrologer to apply the idea in a speculative manner into the future as well, or else the idea of astrology having some predictive relevance is absent... feel free to provide an example based on your understanding of this technique - to make a prediction in advance.. any thoughts on these charts as they refer to the coming year 2016 and beyond? i will do the same as much as possible.. thanks.
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Wolfgang



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 158
Location: Wr. Neudorf, Austria

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

The example shown is not an isolated case. I could "explain" a large number of events such as earthquakes (Nepal) and others with this technique. But as noted correctly, this was supposed to function as a prediction. - But this is addressed an issue that is complicated. To make predictions, it is important to concentrate with this "art" in a country, a city or other area. Because the place forms a constant here. Therefore, a forecast is therefore limited possible if the astrologer does not just observed the "right place". Therefore it would be appropriate to make such study or testing of working groups in the astrological associations. Trying to say that astrology will- achieve little in "Single Battle". Now networks like forums are a step forward, the next would be about as like in universities or (their) research projects, so as to form research groups. Therefore, I see your well-intended statement or criticism to the wrong place directed. But I go dacor with your basic message!

Wolfgang
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Wolfgang



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 158
Location: Wr. Neudorf, Austria

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

Also I am going to continue to strive to mundane events (but not only) when possible to predict. Unfortunately, I see that only limited benefit to the world, or to the public. This has various reasons, one is the one "we" (are) is not serious. Already Zadkiel has correct predictions made regarding mundane events, like wars, etc., but also about earthquakes. (See appendix) but had so little success in the sense of it, to be prepared, so taking any protective measures. Therefore, I regard such predictions more than "finger exercise" of astrologers and "testing" of the astrological techniques and their own progress with their manipulations. But maybe that is times but rewarded, but not in our art but, but by the general public in terms of useful pension!

http://www.screencast.com/t/rv9q2nIBsWbv

Wolfgang
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2710
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolfgang,

would be easier if we knew one another and could interact in person, as opposed to a typewriter, but alas - the pros and cons of the internet stare at me as i type to you this afternoon...

nothing personal... using an aries ingress in 1941 to make a connection into dec. 7th 1941 is probably fine, but i wouldn't use it... why use the aries ingress anyway? you didn't in your example... libra rising in the aries 1941 ingress set to washington.. ordinarily it is suggested a cardinal sign on the ascendant for the aries ingress doesn't hold past the season, but this was part of the example given in b dykes book... am i to conclude i need to apply this principle off only the aries ingress regardless of what the sign on the ascendant is in the aries ingress chart?

what i am trying to say is this.. there are too many ingress charts to choose from... if we just look at the capricorn ingress we can note the mars prominence, or the t square including the mercury/pluto at the top with mars-uranus on the bottom... do you think ( as i) that is the catalyst for the ankara terrorist attack on the military bus that killed approx 30? what do you use for the oct 15th terrorist attack in ankara that murdered over 100? do you see why i ask these questions? do you know a way of isolating and using 1 particular chart to give you some concrete leads on the likelihood of anunfolding of events or does a person just pick and choose which ones when they are applying the technique discussed on page 37 of the b. dykes 'astrology of the world 2' at there own discretion?

i am not singling you out... if you have something concrete you want to share - great! i am trying to approach this with a better understanding of the basis for you saying you think the technique works... thanks..
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Wolfgang



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 158
Location: Wr. Neudorf, Austria

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

Yes, you are right, it would be easier to be in personal contact. A personal speech is more concretely, more individual.

Short to your „question“ why aries etc. ingress? There are old rules to look which sign is rising by aries ingress. (Cardinal, moveable, common) this depends to the timespan for this Ingress. I could not proof this theory, or I cant say this is the right rule. So I look special for the 4 main Ingress (Aries, Cancer, Libra Capricorn) also I use aries and capricorn Ingress for one year generally. But also Important is to look all New moon and Full moon. To see which country or place is in focus (by planets on Angles) I use *ACG* technic. (this technic was used by an austrian astrologer long before J. Lewis, by Gustav Schwickert…http://www.screencast.com/t/4jXUj2KAdF ) Also you need to to look to all eclipses in this year. My tip, timespan of sun eclipse 1year, moon eclipse 1/2 year. Somtime they can overlap.

This is the base for looking in mundan. In short this is the red line. But to find the beginning is not so easy. Also the events are in conection with the horoskop of the country, or town. This is a simple and short overview of mundan-astrology. Also have a look to the Radix of the ingress, there are information. There are rules in old books for interpretations. W. Ramesey, Pearce (Zadkiel) etc.

When you look to the main Ingress in 2015, you can see allways Uranus (at angles) close to Ankara and Mars,it also shown in one Ingresses of the Sun Saturn is on Aszendent. So this is an important tip.

Wolfgang


Last edited by Wolfgang on Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wolfgang



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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Location: Wr. Neudorf, Austria

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To find the the right time for any event, special here for Turkey it is not easy. But you can see that in the 4 main Ingres of 2015 that Ankara is in focus. May you can try to use the Aries Ingress like as a solar and move the angles, to find the month and with the Lunar of the month the day. It is one way. In the Cancer Ingress you see SUN Mars and Uranus there on the place of Ankara. In September there is Saturn on AS! But still the closest Aspekts are in Aries and Capricorn Ingress (Uranus).

Wolfgang
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi wolfgang,

my question on the aries ingress was a rhetorical one only... i know the rationale as presented by the older astrologers... my problem is in using a libra ingress chart for the duration of the year, or progressing off a libra ingress chart for the duration of the year... i suppose anything is possible...

yes - use eclipse data - i was talking about this as well and made a point of showing how both leaders of turkey - erdogan and davutoglu are strongly affected by the eclipse data for this year.. even though i only have a day chart for these 2 men - both born on feb 26th - it is enough for me to believe the astrology for this year will impact them significantly and for turkey as a consequence of their leadership style... now, i am picking that up here without any astrology as well - just following news coming out of turkey, but the astrology helps to put more substance on my claim of a fateful year for both men here..

i don't know of Gustav Schwickert, but it is interesting what you have to say about him and his use of relocation prior to jim lewis's work... i am sure there were others doing this too, but jim lewis was the best known in my own world anyway...

speaking of the eclipse data - peter stockinger has a post up from a few days ago bringing together astro this coming may 2016 mostly highlighting the position of mars returning to it's place which some here will find interesting.. https://starsandstones.wordpress.com/2016/02/21/an-additional-look-at-the-solar-eclipse-9-march-2016/

i think any time sun opposes mars is a more conflicted pattern.. reactivating the mars eclipse position by retro transit would seem to heighten this general pattern... i suspect 2016 to be a particularly challenging year for turkey and the 2 men that are the present leaders of turkey given all of this combined astro patterns.. may 24th 2016 wasn't a time i was singling out, but i see the rationale here for ps doing so here..

additional comment - do also want to mention that i was discussing a natal chart for turkey too which i have included in my overall astro view here on the state of turkey.. oct 29 1923 ankara 8:30pm chart with 7 cancer rising.. nodal axis will be experiencing a return in the next year or so.. north node is at 8 virgo 21 - very close to exact square the mars/saturn conjunction which incidentally lands on the ascendant located to ankara.. all in all - many tie in's astrologically making this a significant year in turkey history as i see it... it would appear to be undergoing huge changes on all levels..
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james_m



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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a follow up to my post from Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:24 am on this thread..

i note a few things - i don't have an actual chart for either davutoglu or erdogan - just a day chart.. it would appear the eclipse cycle in close proximity to important parts in both these leaders is having an impact on matters in turkey... this is from bbc today - Turkey PM Ahmet Davutoglu to quit amid reports of Erdogan rift

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36213401

i do wonder how this all plays out over the course of the year... turkey finds itself in an increasingly challenging set of circumstances on many levels.. i can't imagine this boding well for turkey either...

this was probably shaping up in davutoglus mind for some time.. the obvious astro ties into his chart a number of ways here.. below is davutoglus natal day chart with transits on the outside...


screenshot on pc
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just want to make a note of the 'incursion' or trespass into syria from turkeys armed forces happened today ( august 24 2016) at approx 4-405am at jarablus, syria under the turkish title of 'euphrates shield'... the timing of this coincides on the day of the mars-saturn conjunction which i shared up above in my feb 19 2016 444am post...

if you set the lunar eclipse chart for sept 16 2016 to jarablus, syria - 9 gemini 35 is the ascendant, which happens to be only 5 minutes away from the opposition to mars in the chart from earlier today when this entrance into syrian territory took place..

also coincidentally today aug 24th is the 500th anniversary of the battle of marj dabiq which holds some significance to turkish history and to which some turkish papers were quick to draw a connection to...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq

http://www.anfenglish.com/news/isis-hands-jarablus-over-to-the-akp
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i continue to see turkey in a challenging situation and get the impression they are playing a bit of a double game which involves the usa and russia.. obviously they are in a location that is very central to geo-politics at the moment and act like a bridge between europe and asia...

i wanted to share a technique i have been exploring that is kinda cool.. essentially it is directing the natal chart forward thru the year at a rate of 360 degrees per year.. i choose the date aug 24th as that was the date of the mars/saturn conjunction and the date of turkeys entry into syria in the jarablus area... it seems like some sort of tacit approval was given for this incursion inside syrias border.. perhaps a trade off was worked out which one can read about if they are interested.. i think this technique of moving the natal chart forward approx 1 degree per day is interesting, if nothing else!

below is a chart for turkey with this technique i mention in the chart on the outer wheel..

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