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Best Source to learn Traditional techniques:Rank of Fame etc
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:46 am    Post subject: Best Source to learn Traditional techniques:Rank of Fame etc Reply with quote

Hi All,

I professionally practice a type of traditional astrology which is only 'predictive' in nature. I have observed that the 'art' I practice do not have following techniques.


1. Hyleg
2. Rank of Fame
3. Rank of Slavery &
4. Temperament.

I want to incorporate the above techniques in my practice.


I have learned Hyleg from a lecture given by Bernadette Brady which is available in 'pdf' format.

I have learned 'Rank of Fame' and a little bit about 'Rank of Slavery' from a source which I am searching from google but unable to find right now.

About Temperament I am confused. I have read few articles of John Frawley but I am unable to come to any definite conclusion.

I request any kind member to direct me to the best books or sources which can enhance my knowledge in a definite way so that I could incorporate it in my daily practice.
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Morpheus

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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2906
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi morpheus,

nice to see you back!

check out greenbaums book on temperament.. i liked it and thought it was a worthwhile study that she shared well in her book... i will let others comment on your other request... cheers james

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/89934.Temperament_Astrology_s_Forgotten_Key
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks James, Smile

The natal astrology I normally practice does not need an ascendant based on time but for material to be incorporated as discussed in the first post I would be asking people for the time of birth.

I know that you use mid-points in your studies . I have the Ebertin's book.

Regarding Greenbaum's book, I heard negative comments about the book that it is more a scholarly book rather than the book of definite techniques. Have you got some experience of Greenbum's methods?
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi morpheus,

i think you need the ascendant to work out the temperament, but a good bit of it is gotten off the moon.. i am not sure what to say about my own experience of these ideas that greenbaum uses.. some of it reminds me of other literature on temperament as expressed in medieval astrology that i have read before.. i don't know any other book as focused on this topic as greenbaums... maybe steve arroyo's books cover some similar ground, but they are more modern and not as steeped in what i think of as traditional astro..

personally i mostly think of the elements when thinking about temperament, but that is a pretty simplistic approach! greenbaums presentation is a lot more complicated and good to know - i think... moon phase is part of it.. i can't recall if she uses the diurnal/nocturnal ideology that is more a part of hellenistic astro..i don't think so, but i am going on memory here.. i don't know if 'scholarly' is a good word to describe the book, but it would be that too.. i would say getting temperament off the chart is no easy task and greenbaums book is a book an astrologer would benefit from reading to know all the astro elements that have typically been considered when trying to figure this out... good luck in your search!
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi James,

Ok. I will order one book of Greenbaum on temperament. I need other recommendation for the same topic i.e temperament.

Do you have any suggestions for Hyleg, Rank of Fame and Rank of Slavery?
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Morpheus

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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morpheus,

i don't have any suggestions for the topic of hyleg, or rank of fame and slavery, but it sounds hellenistic astro literature to me.. the medieval astrologers covered hyleg too until more modern times when the whole concept - all of these concepts - seemed to have been dropped to be replaced by modern psychology.. as i recall and understand it, that is where stephen arroyo was coming from with his 1970's book which is on the topic of temperament - "Astrology, Psychology and the Four Elements: An Energy Approach to Astrology and Its Use in the Counseling Arts"..
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 128

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Zoller in his diploma course has 2 chapters on the length of life technique in which the Hyleg is explained. There's also a chapter on the rank of fame.
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks James & Yukionna...

Yukionna,

But I read somewhere that Robert Zoller is not active now a days.
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but you can still buy his course at the new library:
http://www.new-library.com/catalogue/courses.html

I know they ripped him off, but it seems the only place right now where one can get it, and it's very good indeed. Zoller used to have his own web site, but I can't find the link to it right now. I checked it out a while ago and it was inactive.
Maybe someone else knows, you might want to contact Benjamin Dykes, I think the link was in one of his books. Or else Christopher Warnock, he used to be a student of his.
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Yukionna,

When I was searching, Robert Zoller was my first choice. Alas, I had also tried the link you mentioned but it was not working. I have in mind to purchase few books of Benjamin Dykes.

-Traditional Astrology for today by Dykes
-Introduction to Traditional Astrology by Dykes


Few days ago I bought two books written by Joseph Crane on Hellenistic Astrology.

Sect is another thing which is lacking in my previous studies and is not incorporated in my system. I bought one book written by Robert Hand. I have checked the 'sect' and I have found that it also provides useful information regarding essential or accidental dignities of a planet/planetary body.
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both books you mention by Benjamin Dykes, they're great, can highly recommend them. But as far as the Hyleg and also rank of fame is concerned, I haven't seen anything that is as good as what's in the diploma course.

The concept of sect is something Paul pointed out to me, and I've used it in my delineations ever since. Can't imagine looking at a chart another way anymore...guess that makes me a Hellenistic kind of gal.

Good luck with your studies.
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. The techniques I described in my first post would be wonderful, if I am successful in somehow integrating into the system I practice.

There are wonderful astrologies and a number of techniques. One has to be careful which one to choose and which one to ignore. In a practical chart reading there needs to be a 'system' and few techniques which work. Any chart reading involving client has to be over within hour. If you give more time, the session becomes ineffective and tiring.


So this seems to be my shopping list .

-Temperament-Astrology's Forgotten key by Greenbaum
-Traditional Astrology for today by Dykes
-Introduction to Traditional Astrology by Dykes
-Lecture Sets about Medieval Astrology by Bernadette Brady


Thanks for your suggestions.

I have checked your initial posts and saw that you had problems with 'dignities'. Are you ok with them now?
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Yukionna



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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'm ok, but uncertainties always come up on various subjects in the process of delineation, so I try to gain experience by doing charts and read carefully the feed backs, so I may be able to learn. Maybe I'll post a list here at some point, Yukis 10 questions....

Do you do charts?
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do tropical astrology. As others in this forum I also read charts but my way of analyzing essential and accidental dignities is different. I was reading about 'Morin' and his treatment about combustion. Our system seems to be closer to him.

First of all we determine whether a planet or planetary body is weak or strong. Secondly we determine whether it is 'good' and bad.

Essential dignities determine the strength of a planet.
Accidental dignities determine the 'goodness' or otherwise of a planet.
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morpheus wrote:
Our system seems to be closer to him.


What do you mean with 'our system'?

Quote:

Essential dignities determine the strength of a planet.
Accidental dignities determine the 'goodness' or otherwise of a planet.


When I read the word 'strength' I always associate it with 'the strength to act' eg a planet in an angular house is strong to me, whether for good or for bad remains to be seen. I would not call Venus in Pisces strong if it were placed in the 6th, not matter how dignified it may be.

Accidental dignity to me would be eg if a planet were of the sect, if it were placed in a 'good house', if its position towards the Sun were favorable and so on.

So this is probably what you refer to when you say your way of interpreting dignities is different, right? So how did you learn about this way of interpretation?
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