James I very much appreciate your reply to my post and your kind words.

The most important point you mentioned which has really struck me is regarding the relocated SR conjunction of MC /Uranus at 23 Aries.
Yes I would also regard this as highly significant. I note that Uranus at 23Aries58 is within 3 mins of Eta 1 star in the Fornax constellation. Fornax the furnace is concerned with chemistry and the transformative effects of alchemy. Do we have a transformative conjunction here for Boris Johnson or will he just be consumed in the fire?

Also Camerons Solar arc Mercury at 24 Sag conjoins the Lot of Spirit of the Opening Poll chart at 24 Sag 37. What can we make of that especially since you say it was on the Dsc of the eclipse. Interesting.

You ask whether any of this is good or bad and yes this is what is so infuriating. It seems to me there are no good or bad aspects. There's a kind of amorality in astrology!

You mention getting lost in "myriad possibilities". Yes I think we need a sort "multi tasking consciousness" to take on board all the predictive techniques. I do try to simplify as much as possible or else you just get completely bogged down.

I don't think things would seem any clearer to you if you were over here. It's been a particularly vitriolic campaign and the outcome seems certain to split the country in half and perhaps leave the losing half very embittered. I read that article but to comment on it in any detail would depart from astrological discussion. I would just say that yes there are establishment and ruling elite forces at work but through the whole of the EU project itself from its inception, in my opinion, and not just Britain. So for me the "Goliath" to which you refer is the EU !

Actually in the end I think there will be no winners in this referendum ! Perhaps that's what the astrology is saying and why there has been so much disagreement. You could make a case for either side to win which is precisely what has happened. Looking back at the General Election opening poll for last year and even the earlier London Mayoral elections they seem like a predictive piece of cake astrologically, but then hindsight's a wonderful thing!

Amelia wrote:

Bearing in mind how close the polls are and looking at the lunation and particularly that Mercury in Gemini close to the MC and opposite retrograde Saturn I am wondering if perhaps the result will be very close and there may be multiple recounts etc.

Interesting observation. Certainly if the vote is really tight I think that is almost certain. I have seen a few astrologers suggest something like this. Another possibility is a lawsuit/legal challenge from one side (probably from Brexiters) if they lose by an extremely small margin. The government deadline for voting registration was extended for two days earlier this month after the UK Electoral Registration website crashed for a couple of hours just before the original midnight deadline. The government brought in emergency legislation the next day but at least one Brexiter said it was illegal and would be challenged.

Amelia wrote:

It depends how much weight we give to the lunation, both as a pre-ingress one and a pre-event one. I think since it is a full moon and therefore part way through a cycle I'd be inclined to give it more weight from a pre-event point of view than if it were a new moon, but the reverse logic for the pre-ingress situation, where the related new moon would have fallen under the influence of the Aries ingress.

What do others think?

I have always found either part of the lunation cycle useful myself if it fell closer. Traditionally I think they used either but I may be wrong. I will need to check.


Mark
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Alex62 wrote:

Comparing UK chart with the Single European Act in 1993, I have noticed that huge and permanent changes have taken place in the UK.
Now there is no such strong indicators and changes can not be so significant like 1993

Thanks for joining our discussion Alex. So if I understand you correctly your point is that in comparison to 1993 when Britain signed the Maastricht Treaty bringing the Single European Act into being the 1801 chart doesn't show the kind of activity you would be expecting? Are you judging that by just transits or other predictive tools like solar returns, progressions, solar arcs, profections etc? I should say I dont exclusively rely on the 1801 chart for the UK or indeed national charts full change. The Aries ingress for London this year is quite dramatic with Mars on the MC. Still if you are correct on the outcome that is a useful insight to research further.

Alex62 wrote:

David Cameron doesn't have at the moment any signs of bad period or losing his position. ( on the forum I have already predicted Cameron victory in the last elections )

A lot of astrologers say this. But I question this. First David Cameron has been having a torrid year. Any astrology that suggests his life is going fine this year is a bit suspicious. I wrote a very extensive piece here explaining why Cameron had such a bad solar return chart this year. And using profections there is considerable conflict and opposition indicated this year. Solar arcs pick that up too. And looking at this from a modern perspective Cameron is struggling with a Pluto square. So I cant agree there are no 'bad signs' in his chart. Whether all that is enough that he will lose this referendum is the disputed question though.

Alex62

The biggest changes can only happen with the agreement on accession to the EEC in 1973, where some significant formally - legal changes can happend

Quite a few astrologers think there is enough going on in that chart to suggest a Brexit. But are they right? We will know soon enough if your view is vindicated!

Anyway, I appreciate your comments and respect your view. I hope you join in some more discussions here.

Mark

Alex

It seems some polling stations have been closed due to flooding.

Maybe until Chiron goes retrograde on Monday 27th there will just be endless delays?

The Remain camp would prefer it if the referendum was called off entirely, and I wonder if the floods are just an excuse to try to stop people from voting.

Fleur wrote:

The Remain camp would prefer it if the referendum was called off entirely, and I wonder if the floods are just an excuse to try to stop people from voting.

I know the atmosphere in this referendum has been unpleasant and people are distrustful of the other side. But blaming the government for the disruption caused by the floods feels like going a tad too far Fleur! I see a legal case brewing against God though....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... -expected/

Mark

I hope I haven't overwhelmed people with too many links! I just I would share a late but very comprehensive piece on the referendum written by Rod Chang a London based mundane astrologer. It appeared last night.

Rod predicts a Brexit. Interesting as I know Rod is a passionate remain supporter so he is predicting against his desired political outcome.

http://www.rodchang.com/2016/06/22/rema ... -analysis/

Mark

thanks vicki - ditto!



upload picture

Lastest polls favour a clear remain:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/f ... d%3D472550

The view of Peter Kellner a veteran pollster supports this:

http://politicscounter.com/?p=95

Mark

Referendums are by nature very polarising. This one in particular has been extremely toxic at times. Whatever, way the vote goes we need some national healing and astrological insight into the different forces in our national character.

I would like to share a post from the English mundane astrologer Barry Goddard. He uses the UK 1801 chart to very accurately pinpoint the real issue at the heart of this referendum: identity.

I think that beneath all the arguments in the UK about the EU, there are arguably 2 principles, or archetypes maybe, at work: the desire to be connected, to belong; and the desire to be independent. And these 2 principles are in a struggle with each other in the UK collective psyche. Perhaps they are the Moon in Cancer and the Sun in Capricorn respectively in the UK chart. The fact that Pluto is currently starting to oppose our Moon, having conjoined the Sun, shows how real, how deep, how defining this struggle is.

And I think they are also principles that we each have to work out in our own lives, and maybe the view we take on the referendum reflects that working out in our own life. Or maybe it doesn't. But I think there is something genuine going in people whatever view they take, and it may be at a level beneath the issues that they think the referendum is about. I think that both 'sides' are onto something very real that needs respecting, that an 'in-out' choice does not do justice to.

I personally think Barry's analysis is very insightful and helpful in understanding what has been going in this referendum. One can of course develop his core insight further. Capricorn representing the independent minded spirit of the country, a pragmatic outlook, a love of British traditions with an entrepreneurial spirit. We know older voters have inclined to support the leave campaign. Younger voters symbolised by a Cancerian outlook often feel more European in their identity and have grown up with the a sense of a wider European family in the EU.

Its interesting that Cancer-Capricorn are the signs on the ASC-DESC in both the opening of poll chart and the close of poll chart. Capricorn is of course the Sun in the 1066 chart for England. And its undeniably in much of England where the drive to leave the EU has come from. Scotland on the other hand is one of the most strongly pro-EU parts of the kingdom and is traditionally ruled by Cancer. Moreover, the national chart I have rectified for Scotland has an ASC at 26 Cancer close to the opening of poll ASC.

More generally, the emotional outpouring of grief after the brutal murder of MP Jo Cox seems have activated the UK Cancer Moon which has a Pluto opposition at present. Its interesting that Jo Cox was a Sun Cancer like Princess Diana. The death of these two women are of course 19 years apart and are connected by a Virgo-Pisces nodal connection.

Mark

BBC has just said that some of the polling stations around London will stay open until all the queues have gone due to the problems arising from the weather. Not sure whether that changes the close of polls chart. It certainly tallies with the aspect in the lunation.

Mark,

Likewise I can't be bothered to respond to most of your points. Because as this thread illustrates just endless digging around missing the main issues.

I haven't come across the 1927 Chart. Certainly NOT in the many good Astrology books I have. But as Uranus is hit by the Eclipse and that it is close to the cusp of the 4th House that'd have concerned me.

As I looked thru the charts I kept muttering "it has to be Uranus". A sudden change has to be Uranus related.

But my studies of Eclipses suggest a triggering planet is needed or how else can you time when the potential of the Eclipse is re-activated?

An Eclipse lays down potential which is later triggered.

All this has worked fine for me.

H

PS So well done to those that went for BREXIT. Personally, I doubt the techniques used explained it.

We've BREXITed simply because of the hang over of the very very negative energy that peaked 13th - 19th June. Sat/Nep; Mars/Urn; Full Moon. So people weren't thinking right.

I've no doubt we'll soon realise as we begin to snap out of this darkness that we'll realise that the decision was wrong. VERY HARMFUL.

A bit like somebody who hot headedly commits a crime and then has to live with the consequences.

From my side I couldn't, and still can't find any other Astrological reason for this BREXIT and I had felt that the very strong energies of Jupiter, Node and Pluto would pull us JUST up in time. I think it nearly did.

But it was a Judgement Call.