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Will the UK leave the EU?
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WooWoo



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 1125

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've given myself a little time to think things thru. Genuinely, and validated by some publication I make, I couldn't find any clear answer to how the vote would go.

I felt the conjunction of Jupiter with the Node, and trine Pluto would bring us out of the awful negativity that Mar / Uranus, and Saturn Neptune had dealt to a peak on the 18th and 19th June. Full Moon adding more truculence. I thought the positive would beat the negative.

The inconjunction on the morning of the 23rd June between Mercury and Pluto also suggested some sort of complete negative mental breakdown.

But I could only point to where I thought it was going and of course the really big mistake I was making, and maybe others too, was that the vote wasn't definitive as to the UK leaving the EU.

Looking for things in UK or EEC charts was pretty well wrong to point to the UK leaving.

That still may NOT happen. The question was really what do the people want to happen. I'd thought a good horary chart would have been the best as it would have given timings too.

So I think we are all too early to say we know the answer. Probably back to the drawing board.

H
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Wojtek



Joined: 19 Jul 2016
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Article 50 was triggered yesterday so the UK formally declared their intention of leaving the EU.

"Britain’s Ambassador to the EU Sir Tim Barrow personally passed the letter to Mr Tusk in Brussels at 12.20pm. (29/03/2017)"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-article-50-theresa-may-eu-angela-merkel-security-divorce-bill-a7657116.html

Looking at the astrological chart it doesn't much look like a horoscope of divorce. I think that one day the UK will revoke their decision.
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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 412
Location: Kent - England

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you mean that you looked at a chart for today I am not sure that is has any validity. Mundane astrology depends on longer timescales. One would need to check either a foundation chart for thr EU or a conjunctional chart of Saturn/ Jupiter or Saturn / Mars
There seems to be a lot of wishful thinking by pro EC idealists and indeed pro EC cynics who just want free money from Briitain and housing,jobs and benefits to be provided by the UK for their citizens because they cannot provide themselves.
It could be the European project implodes by itself and Brexit is just a step in the process.
That is what both astrologers and profane pundits need to address
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amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 82

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not looked at the whole chart, but mercury on that date was separating from a conjunction with Uranus but trine Saturn-may be some surprises but I think it will happen. It looks like the moon was in the late degrees of aries, trine Saturn AMY
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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 412
Location: Kent - England

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At 15:24 yesterday Theresa May PM sent me an email about her plans for Brexit. Casting the chart for London I see the 28th degree of Leo arising suggesting alea jacta est and we see Luna in last degree of Aries in H 9. We are leaving whatever square aspects one may find
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 67

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
There are various astrological approaches one can take to such issues such as Ingress charts, national charts, or natal charts of the key players. Another option though is the chart for the day of polling. That is the approach I have decided to use here.

I know some astrologers use a close of poll chart arguing this represents the end of the contest (10pm on 23rd of June). However, I personally, think a chart timed for the opening of poll chart is more effective in revealing the outcome of an event like this (7AM on 23rd June 2016). Firstly, astrology has always relied on inceptions or the beginnings of things to draw up a chart whether a birth or starting a business. Secondly, I think we should approach this as a traditional contest chart just as people do for sporting events. I have looked at lots of UK general elections in this way and it seems to lead to more reliable results than the end of poll time chart. In contrast I find end of poll charts very useful as a final transit chart to compare against natal and national charts.





House Systems: The chart is displayed in Equal & Placidus houses. I tend to use Whole sign and Equal over quadrant. I like to see the ASC-DESC axis clearly displayed and this works better with Equal. I have looked at the chart in Placidus too and include that in my analysis for those that work that way.

Rulerships: I am a traditional astrologer in that sense that I only consider the 7 visible planets as rulers of the signs. When appropriate I also look at other kinds of rulership such as exaltation, triplicity and bound/term.

Chart Interpretation: Firstly, using the principle laid down by Guido Bonatti questions of status quo vs change are represented by the 1st and 7th house respectively. The placement of these signs planetary rulers will also be indicative of the result.

The Moon by placement, dispositor and applying aspect is an indicator where the will of the people flows during the contest.

Firstly, I note cardinal or moveable signs on all the angles of the chart. This would support the idea of some kind of significant change taking place.

Cancer and Capricorn are the signs on the ASC-DESC axis. It has been noted that a majority of younger voters favour remaining in the EU while a majority of older voters support the leave campaign. This fits the planetary rulers of each sign with the Moon associated with youth and Saturn older age.

The Moon (ruling the 1st house) falls in the angular 7th house in most systems of sign division. Although by whole sign it is placed in the 8th place from the ASC. In ancient astrology the 7th house was often seen as consistent with settling in another country far from home. The fact the Moon is in this house would seem to indicate public support moving to the leave campaign.

If we instead use a whole sign approach the Moon is in the 8th house. This is part shows the importance of economic issues in this debate. In part the effect of foreign investment and also the economic impact of wider EU immigration on the UK economy. The 8th house indicates the fear, distress and anxiety amongst the public associated with this decision. Both campaigns have been accused of trying to scare the electorate. In the case of Remain over economic issues while the Leave campaign have stoked up immigration concerns. Moreover, with the public so divided on this issue it might be said that both sides fear the consequences of the other campaign winning. The Moon is Aquarius is in aversion to its sign of Cancer indicating a social disconnection taking place.

Although the Moon could be taken as the ruler of those favouring status quo it is also a general indicator of the will of the public here.

The Moon in Aquarius is disposited by Saturn which is the 7th house ruler and indicative of change. The Moon is making only one aspect that will perfect during the election day which is a sextile to Saturn (Lord 7). In this instance this would be consistent with public support going to the leave campaign. Most probably due to older voters turning out in higher numbers to support the Leave option.

Saturn the ruler of the 7th house is placed in the 5th house in Equal & Placidus. Perhaps indicating the luck or fortune are with the Leave campaign. Although Saturn is retrograde. In some respects though this could delineated as the Leave campaign attempt to turn back the clock to a time outside the EU. Retrogrades although indicating delays and setbacks can also suggest unconventional outcomes. In the event of a leave vote any �Brexit� negotiations could be protracted and last years. Using whole sign houses Saturn actually, falls in the 6th house which indicative of a much more difficult situation for the Leave campaign.

For what is meant to be a domestic UK debate there has been a quite exceptional amount of comment by international financial agencies such as the IMF, OECD, G8, and comments by numerous world leaders such as Barack Obama in favour of the UK remaining in the European Union. Its noteable that the 9th house ruler in the opening of poll chart is Jupiter conjunct the North Node demonstrating these powerful corporate interests. Jupiter In Virgo also seems to reflect domestic corporate players such as the Bank of England and CBI which have made the case in favour of the UK remaining versus the risks of leaving the EU. Astrologically, the lot of fortune in Pisces on the 8th again highlights just how central the issue of shared financial resources is within this debate.

The Remain campaign have been relentlessly emphasizing the potential threat to the UK economy, jobs and incomes Brexit could pose outside a large trade block like the EU. Its also been claimed the UK could take years to agree its own Trade agreements and face tariffs putting up costs in the meantime. In contrast the Leave campaign are focusing on the effects of uncontrolled EU immigration, the costs of EU membership and the bureaucratic and undemocratic nature of the EU. There is also an emphasis by the Brexiters on the issue of recovering a perceived loss of national sovereignty in terms of UK government decision making.

Mercury placed in the 11th house by Equal and quadrant houses (or 12th in whole sign) is separating from a square to Jupiter (Lord 9). I interpret this as a slim but decisive majority of the public rejecting the EU and in some instances this could be motivated by concerns over EU migration.

We should also look at the exaltation rulers of the 1st and 7th houses. These are particularly emphasized in contest charts. These are Jupiter and Mars respectively. Jupiter the exaltation ruler of Cancer is in detriment in Virgo and falls in the cadent third by whole sign and Placidus houses. However, it falls in the 2nd house by Equal. It is in a tight conjunction to the North Node.

Mars the exaltation ruler of the Capricorn is placed in the fortunate 5th house by Placidus and Whole sign houses. Its in the angular 4th by Equal. It is strong by essential dignity in its domicile of Scorpio. Again it is retrograde like Saturn!

Interestingly, the Moon forms an antiscia to Mars in this chart. Mars is not only the exaltation ruler of Capricorn but also the bound ruler of the DESC degree. Saturn is also the bound ruler of the ASC of the chart.

Although, since Mars is the MC ruler this could also be interpreted as the government spearheading an aggressive pro-remain campaign

The lot of fortune is placed in the 8th house (equal/quadrant houses) in Pisces disposited by Pisces. This highlights the centrality of financial concerns to both campaigns with Jupiter the exaltation ruler of Cancer and Saturn disposited by Jupiter in the chart. Using whole sign the lot of fortune is placed in the 9th house emphasizing the the focus on the EU and foreign trade. Using derived houses from the lot of Fortune the Moon is placed in the 12th place while Saturn is in the 10h place.

Uranus is squaring the ascendant and descendant angles in the chart. It also conjuncts the Nonagesimal pointing to a potentially dramatic and surprising outcome that will fundamentally impact the UK government.

The heavy Saturn emphasis in this chart supports the interpretation that older (and poorer) voters will be crucial to this result. Polling evidence suggests that while younger voters heavily favour remaining in the EU they are usually less likely to actually vote than older voters. In contrast older voters tend to be more motivated and more likely to actually vote.

Saturn is also traditionally associated with the less wealthy. This supports polling analysis that the lower social classes are much more likely to vote leave than the comfortably off middle or upper class. Recent UK government research shows it is the working lower income group that has been most seriously impacted in employment terms by the influx of workers from the rest of the EU.

However, the retrograde Saturn and Mars give cause for concern.
If Brexit happens it will not be a straighforward process and could be very protracted.

It is going to be very hard for David Cameron to survive a vote to leave. He has stacked his whole political reputation on achieving a remain vote. Sooner or later then this would spark a leadership contest in the Conservative party with Boris Johnson in a very strong position in that scenario.

Nevertheless, Cameron has shown himself to be a real political survivor in the past. It is possible he may try to ride out the internal party storm for a while. The uber Libran Cameron would surely prefer his political legacy to be that of the expert negotiator for Britain rather than simply the Prime Minister whose career ended in ignominious failure after losing a referendum he decided to hold.

In the event of a vote to leave Exit negotiation with the European Union could take many years. Similarly, negotiation on trade deals with other economic blocks such as the USA and China are likely to be very protracted.

A vote to leave the EU would also be fractious for UK political unity. Polls indicate a strong pro-remain majority in Northern Ireland, and Scotland. So a Brexit vote would open up a political divide between England and the other constituent nations of the UK. Most significantly, in Scotland where the fault lines of the independence referendum are still present.

Nicola Sturgeon, the leader of the Scottish National Party, has already threatened to call for another independence referendum in Scotland if there is a vote to leave in England but to remain in Scotland. It seems unlikely, the Conservative led government will grant such a thing in this Parliament but this will only increase tensions between Westminster and the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh.

In contrast should the vote turn out a narrow remain vote the resentments would be the reverse with much of England frustrated that the Celtic countries and London had been decisive in in keeping the country in the EU against the wishes of the majority of English voters.

So weighing up the indicators from this chart we have the following features:

Pro-Leave

-Cardinal signs on angles
-Moon in Aquarius disposited by Saturn (Lord 7)
-Moon placed in 7th house (quadrant/equal houses)
-Moon�s only Ptolemaic aspect during polling day is a sextile to Saturn (Lord 7)
-Significator for Leave campaign (Saturn) in 5th house by quadrant and equal houses
-Mercury in separating square to Jupiter (Lord 9) before polling begins.
-Saturn is 5th house from ASC (quadrant/equal houses)
-Saturn is 11th house from Capricorn (quadrant/equal houses)
-Saturn is bound ruler (Egyptian) of ASC in Cancer
-Mars ruler of MC=government is Rx
-Mars (exaltation ruler of Capricorn) is bound ruler of DESC degree
-Mars (exaltation ruler of Capricorn) forms an antiscia to Moon.
-Derived houses from Lot of Fortune place Saturn in 10th/Moon in 12th
-Uranus square angles and conjunct Nonagesimal

Pro-Remain

-Saturn is Rx in chart
-Saturn in 6th house (whole sign only)
-Saturn is 12th place from Capricorn (whole sign only)
-Mars Exaltation ruler of Capricorn is Rx
-Mars (domicile ruler of MC/government) forms antiscia to Moon

Overall, the testimony of astrological factors in this chart is leads me to conclude a Brexit looks more likely than not. This appears to support what other charts are suggesting to me. I may post up some analysis of these charts later.

Mark

I couldnt help noticing how accurate all these predicions by Mark were Very Happy
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