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navamsha and sinastry (de fow book)
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:00 pm    Post subject: navamsha and sinastry (de fow book) Reply with quote

Hello,
I'm reading De Fouw Svoboda book about sinastry in Vedic astrology (Light on Relationships : The Synastry of Indian Astrology) and trying to understand the navamsha chart.
In short the authors calculate the D-9 navamsha chart of B, then locate B lord of the 7th in A radix chart.
In the book example: John Kennedy's D-9 L1 is Mercury so the D9 L7 is Jupiter: so they search where Jupiter falls in Jackie's radix chart (Jupiter is in Jackie's 8th) and vice versa.
Is this the traditional use of navamsha chart? Which book I could read to dig a little more?
Thanks
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

try this: ch 10 shloka 9 onwards p 109
https://ia600502.us.archive.org/18/items/TFIC_ASI_Books/Phaladeepika.pdf
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: navamsha and sinastry (de fow book) Reply with quote

I haven't read the book by De Fouw and Svoboda, but the method as you relate it, Margherita, doesn't seem entirely traditional to me. (That is, not entirely in harmony with the textual tradition -- one can always invoke secret oral tradition.) Specifically, using the navāṃśa (or any subdivision of the signs) as a separate chart, with its own house placements and rulerships, appears to be a modern development. If we compare it, for instance, to the verse referenced by Pankaj, we see that the Phaladīpikā uses only the rulerships of the radix (the rāśi-cakra) and projects navāṃśa positions onto its signs, much as ancient Greek sources do with the dodekatemoria.

One astrologer who was very interested in the uses of the navāṃśa and wrote several articles and books on the subject was the late C.S. Patel. Moreover, his Sanskrit was better than that of most modern authors, and he took the trouble of digging out some fairly rare sources from manuscript libraries. If the topic interests you, I'd recommend reading Patel.
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margherita



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Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: navamsha and sinastry (de fow book) Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind reply, Pankaj and Martin.
I will surely search for the books both of you mentioned.
I was sure Skyscript was the best place to enquire about my doubt Smile

margherita
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nagarjuna



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Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always wonder myself what signification term "navamsa" (or "amsa" generally) may have in the Ancient Indian Astrology. In the classic texts they use navamsas to determinate the profession of the native, although is almost sure that in practice Indian astrologers do not use the navamsas for this, however they can determine the natives' profession with enough accuracy.
Actually I always suspected that a planet being in the navamsa of other planet actually means that that planet is aspected (or conjunct) by the other planet.
Classic texts also use the navamsas expired in the 5th house to determine the number and the sex of native's children, although is quite sure that in practice Indian astrologers use the planets aspecting the 5th house for this, the same rule that we can find in Medieval Astrology at William Lilly.
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margherita



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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagarjuna wrote:

Classic texts also use the navamsas expired in the 5th house to determine the number and the sex of native's children, although is quite sure that in practice Indian astrologers use the planets aspecting the 5th house for this, the same rule that we can find in Medieval Astrology at William Lilly.


Reading De Fouw book I noticed too there are several similarities with Hellenistic astrology, one for all the malefic meaning of the 6th and 8th house.
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carriere.francois



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Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Margherita,

Concerning books on vargas, besides C.S. Patel's book on navamsa, there is one by V.P. Goel, Comprehensive Prediction by Divisional Charts, Sagar Publishers. He covers all vargas, including Shodasha Varga, Tajika vargas and few others less used. Filled with examples.
http://shop.saptarishisastrology.com/index.php?page=details&prod=1707&cat=53&group=0

Can't tell if he only used traditional techniques, neverthless, I find it very useful!

Pankaj,

Thank you for the link to Mantreswar's Phala Deeipka: surely a better edition than that of G.S Kapoor, I already have...
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margherita



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Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carriere.francois wrote:
Margherita,

Concerning books on vargas, besides C.S. Patel's book on navamsa, there is one by V.P. Goel, Comprehensive Prediction by Divisional Charts, Sagar Publishers. He covers all vargas, including Shodasha Varga, Tajika vargas and few others less used.


Thanks, Francois

margherita
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delaforge



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Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A thank you from me, too, Francois. I've just ordered this book. Sound exactly what I was looking for.

Melissa
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just started to study V. P. Goal's book on Divisional Charts, which had been sitting on my bookshelf for a few years. I'll try to comment on the book a little later. But, as everyone knows, these varga or divisional charts are computed in the sidereal zodiac, and if the ayanamsa used is wrong, the divisional charts will be wrong.

As these charts are all "sign as house," a wrong ayanamsa will place some planets in different divisional signs and houses. Most astrologers who use India's astrological systems find that Lahiri's ayanamsa works well. The Krishnamurti ayanamsa works even better in my experience, and it is only a very small shift of about 6 minutes from Lahiri, about one degree in the navamsa chart.

For maybe 30 years I've been using planetary overlaps from the navamsa to the natal chart and house cusps and reading them as conjunctions. But the degrees have to be close, within maybe 5-7 degrees. Generally I keep the orb to under 3 degrees for (equal) cusps.

Many Indian astrology programs don't calculate divisional charts by degree, so then the charts have to be read individually without reference to the natal chart except when using (navamsa) sign dispositors in the natal chart. This is recommended especially for the 10th house in some classical texts. (As for example if the 10th lord is in Leo navamsa, then look to the Sun in the natal chart for details about the 10th house.)

It's a matter of debate about which (if any) aspects between planets are read in the divisional charts, but these are always taken between relevant signs. This is why a correct ayanamsa is needed in reading the charts. But the signs themselves in divisional charts are always important for planetary strength or weakness, and for judging events in dasa periods. K. N. Rao has some really good examples of how to use divisional charts for timing in some of his books.

Therese
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margherita



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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:


For maybe 30 years I've been using planetary overlaps from the navamsa to the natal chart and house cusps and reading them as conjunctions. But the degrees have to be close, within maybe 5-7 degrees. Generally I keep the orb to under 3 degrees for (equal) cusps.

Therese


Thanks Therese. Is it true in sinastry too? I can compare B's navamsa with A's radix and A's navamsa with B's navamsa?

Or I should use A's d-9 chart with A's radix chart only?

Margherita
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Margherita wrote:
Quote:
Thanks Therese. Is it true in sinastry too? I can compare B's navamsa with A's radix and A's navamsa with B's navamsa?

Or I should use A's d-9 chart with A's radix chart only?

Hi Margherita,

The navamsa signs are like little bells that have the same tone as the big zodiac sign bells. So these signs can be crossed between charts for different people, both natal and navamsa. I usually keep orbs fairly small, but this isn't traditional in India where for a long time only navamsa signs were noted rather than degrees.

A navamsa planet in A's chart conjunct a planet in B's natal chart will definitely be a connection, compatible or otherwise depending on the planets. D9 charts can also be compared to each other. Each of the 12 different tones or colors can be matched with each other. But no crossover conjunctions or aspects that would be out of sign.

I'll see if I can find some good examples.

Therese
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margherita



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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:

I'll see if I can find some good examples.

Therese


I would like a lot to see an example, yes.....

Thanks for your kind reply

margherita
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D9 Comparison Between Charts

Prince William and Kate (Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge) by all appearances have a love marriage and mutual understanding between them. I haven’t read the 2011 book by Christopher Anderson, William and Kate: A Royal Love Story, but their marriage is obviously very different from Diana’s marriage to Charles, William’s parents.

We don’t have a verified birth time for Kate. I have arbitrarily used a birth time of 5 p.m. based on a vague reported time in Anderson’s book of “afternoon.” Here are the main contacts between Kate and William (rounded to whole numbers as we don’t have a birth hour for Kate):

Krishnamurti Degrees

William D9 to Kate’s Radix

19 Capricorn Venus D9 William
13 Capricorn Moon D9 William
13 Capricorn Mercury radix Kate
14 Capricorn Venus radix Kate

D9 to D9
6 Taurus Asc D9 William
3 Taurus Venus D9 Kate
5 Taurus Moon?? D9 Kate
(If Kate's D9 Venus is in Taurus, then both of them have D9 Venus-Moon conjunctions.)

29 Scorpio Sun D9 William
21 Scorpio Sun D9 Kate
(Similar suns are significant for a soul connection.)

William Radix to Kate D9
4 Gemini Desc William radix
2 Gemini D9 Mars Kate

20 Sag Ketu radix William
23 Sag Rahu D9 Kate

2 Taurus Venus radix William
4 Taurus Venus D9 Kate

6.5 Sun radix William
2.0 Mars D9 Kate

20 Gemini Rahu radix William
23 Gemini Rahu D9 Kate

15 Virgo Mars radix William
15 Virgo Saturn D9 Kate

The multiple conjunctions of the Moon's nodes (Rahu and Ketu) are very significant for relationships. William and Kate are obviously old karmic friends. I haven't compared the two natal charts as that is the standard way of comparing charts that any astrologer can use to check compatibility between charts. Next I can post connections between Charles and Camilla and Charles and Diana.
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margherita



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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
D9 Comparison Between Charts

Prince William and Kate (Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge) by all appearances have a love marriage and mutual understanding between them.


thanks, you are very kind
margherita
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