skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

How do you play bad transits?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Philosophy & Science
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 654

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:00 pm    Post subject: How do you play bad transits? Reply with quote

I know some new agists and others are going to pipe up with the ready made astrological cliche that "there are no good and bad transits". I don't want to be bothered arguing against that one, I think most astrologers who have studied charts and transits know that there are definitely bad, and good, transits, and I am not talking about trines, for the most part I don't use them except as background, I would definitely not look at transiting trines. This world does some awful things to people, those are bad transits, some people get lucky, those are good transits.

Assuming that there are good and bad transits, and you or the person whose chart you are looking at has a bad transit happening that they won't be able to change, how would you respond to that transit?

Does allowing the worst that transit wants to do affect later transits, many years down the line, to the same planets the natal chart? By avoiding or blocking what look like unpleasant affects or people brought on by the bad transit, do you affect how later bad, or good, transits to that same planet or group of planets manifest?

Or is everything absolutely fated?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Sternbach



Joined: 01 Mar 2014
Posts: 459
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always make best of everything. Smile
_________________
_________________

Visit my blog:
https://michaelsternbach.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: Delhi

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: How do you play bad transits? Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
I know some new agists and others are going to pipe up with the ready made astrological cliche that "there are no good and bad transits". I don't want to be bothered arguing against that one, I think most astrologers who have studied charts and transits know that there are definitely bad, and good, transits, and I am not talking about trines, for the most part I don't use them except as background, I would definitely not look at transiting trines. This world does some awful things to people, those are bad transits, some people get lucky, those are good transits.

Assuming that there are good and bad transits, and you or the person whose chart you are looking at has a bad transit happening that they won't be able to change, how would you respond to that transit?

Does allowing the worst that transit wants to do affect later transits, many years down the line, to the same planets the natal chart? By avoiding or blocking what look like unpleasant affects or people brought on by the bad transit, do you affect how later bad, or good, transits to that same planet or group of planets manifest?

Or is everything absolutely fated?


Is free will really willed ?

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2014/01/15/261716096/the-choice-is-yours-the-fate-of-free-will

I am not sure if transiting trines can not be bad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 654

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: How do you play bad transits? Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:


Is free will really willed ?

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2014/01/15/261716096/the-choice-is-yours-the-fate-of-free-will

I am not sure if transiting trines can not be bad.


That link to the Sam Harris book is interesting, thanks, and it promises to completely answer my question of this thread.

I wasn't so impressed by the slick Facebook mentality argument of Marcelo in the main part of the link. Just a fancy meaningless waste of words.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: Delhi

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: How do you play bad transits? Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
pankajdubey wrote:


Is free will really willed ?

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2014/01/15/261716096/the-choice-is-yours-the-fate-of-free-will

I am not sure if transiting trines can not be bad.


That link to the Sam Harris book is interesting, thanks, and it promises to completely answer my question of this thread.

I wasn't so impressed by the slick Facebook mentality argument of Marcelo in the main part of the link. Just a fancy meaningless waste of words.


As long as you don't start believing in the modern neo-converse primary directions( the ones that occurred before birth by counter-clockwise rotation.)

Very Happy


PD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 654

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: How do you play bad transits? Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:


As long as you don't start believing in the modern neo-converse primary directions( the ones that occurred before birth by counter-clockwise rotation.)

Very Happy


PD


I don't think I use "directions" at all, if you mean progressions. I do use Solar Arcs of the natal angles to natal planets, one degree per year for both the Ascendant and Midheaven, both backwards and forwards.

I have noticed, especially when specific cases have been pointed out to me, that Solar Arcs of one natal planet to another do seem to work, again at one degree per year. I haven't personally studied these enough.

I used to try to use directions/progressions from complex calculations, but they never seemed to correspond to events. When somebody said try Solar Arcs instead, I never looked back.

A Solar Arc of one degree per year of the Ascendant backwards through the twelfth house, for instance, does seem to correspond to events. I had never really thought much about whether these are different in meaning or quality to the Solar Arcs of the Ascendant moving forward through the first house. I am vaguely aware that some astrologers might ascribe the converse arcs to past lives. In my own chart, I would say that converse Solar Arcs of the chart angles to natal planets definitely have effects, for example I have Pluto in my twelfth house and the converse Solar Arc of my Ascendant to my natal Pluto was very obvious.

An example of converse Ascendant to natal Pluto is Adolf Hitler http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hitler,_Adolf The chart is AA data from birth certificate, and at age 52 in 1941 his converse Ascendant was at 4 degrees 40 minutes Virgo, squaring his natal Pluto at 4 degrees 40 minutes Gemini. His Pluto's antiscion is 25 degrees Cancer 10 minutes, which squares his Mercury at 25 degrees Aries 39 minutes, and his Mercury is conjunct his Descendant. He was known as a powerful orator. It was this same area of his chart that was activated by transiting Neptune around 5 degrees Virgo in 1932, and then Uranus in 25 degrees Aries.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2783
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as i understand it elevating transits over many other astro considerations is a 'modern' approach.. one problem with this is in who selects which aspects will be given consideration... does one consider the ptolemic aspects, but ignore such aspects as the 45/135/30/150 or more modern aspects - quintiles, septiles, noviles and extensions - etc. etc.? one gets swamped in a maze of endless aspects, as 'transits' of any of these 'aspects' are or aren't considered relevant from the subjective position of the astrologer...

nothing is said about the nature of the planets and how certain planets might not get along all that well to begin with! or that a planet in a sign - is it tropical or sidereal? - lol - might not be well suited, or might be a great fit... how does this impact the transit? nothing is said about this generally.. or how about the idea that the moment of birth as a moment expressing something of relevance to the person, tree, dog, building or whatever that was born at that moment - has a story to tell us that is central to any consideration of a later 'transit' that happens after the fact? does a transit of a planet to another one have some relevance to how they are situated in the birth chart? personally i think it does, but typically this is not talked about..

do i believe there are good transits and bad transits? did someone ask a question about 'bad' transits? what is a bad transit? inquiring minds want to know!

as others have suggested, transits are like looking at a skin rash and trying to resolve it with skin cream.. might there be something else going on inside that has some bearing on why the skin rash appeared? i think there is.. this is where directions or profections, or solar returns by some are considered more central to what is taking place, while transits are surface activity that will express itself as one of the later tumblers to open in anyone's attempt to find an answer to the mystery of why certain events happen at a particular time and not another...

this doesn't stop an astrologer from trying to find an answer as to why something manifests when it does and if they want to lay it all at the foot of transit data, there are still some insights to be gotten..

for me personally the trump transit is the transit of saturn.. all the other transits gravitate around what the transit of saturn is doing to a persons chart.. i have recently become very convinced of the relevance of the transiting nodal axis and how it highlights a natal chart as well... this brings in the significance of eclipse data... all of these prognostic techniques need to be considered in order to find a key reason or reasons for the timing of certain events at one time, while not at another as i see it..

i 'play bad transits' like a musician plays with a minor chord - it adds to the depth of harmony that can't be gotten with just the major chords.. good music is a combo of both, but as in life or astrology, no two people share the same appreciation of music in an identical way... finding out what a 'bad' transit sounds like a real mystery to me actually... show me one!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 654

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:



for me personally the trump transit is the transit of saturn.. all the other transits gravitate around what the transit of saturn is doing to a persons chart.. i have recently become very convinced of the relevance of the transiting nodal axis and how it highlights a natal chart as well... this brings in the significance of eclipse data... all of these prognostic techniques need to be considered in order to find a key reason or reasons for the timing of certain events at one time, while not at another as i see it..



I see the transit of Saturn in itself as very minor, and suspect the "Saturn return" was an early new-age invention from America. Saturn only triggers what the outer planets are doing. The transit of Saturn is too fast to be more than a trigger to something much slower and bigger. Same with the transiting nodes, I am sure they are important, but not as important as the natal nodes, and I think natal Saturn is absolutely primary too.

I see the transit of IsisTranspluto, being the slowest planet, the most important, followed by the transits of Neptune and Pluto. Uranus transits are also very important. Outer planet transits to natal Saturn and Jupiter are probably the most important for worldly events, which is what is important to most people, not "soul growth" or speculation on what happens when we die, or any of the things new agists think they have answers to because they are unprovable.

I am particularly interested at the moment in isolating the transits of the outer planets especially IsisTranspluto to natal Saturn and Jupiter, as the effects are very striking. An example of a bad transit is IsisTranspluto slamming into natal Jupiter, and and example of a good transit is IsisTranspluto to natal Saturn. I am studying these to see if there are exceptions and if so why, and also what happens if somebody has a natal aspect between Saturn and Jupiter, eg John Lennon has a conjunction at 13.5 degrees Taurus which had a Solar Arc from his Ascendant at age 23, as well as a transit from IsisTranspluto in 13 degrees Leo in the early 1960's.


james_m wrote:
i 'play bad transits' like a musician plays with a minor chord - it adds to the depth of harmony that can't be gotten with just the major chords.. good music is a combo of both, but as in life or astrology, no two people share the same appreciation of music in an identical way... finding out what a 'bad' transit sounds like a real mystery to me actually... show me one!!



A couple of examples of IsisTranspluto transits to natal Jupiter. Kate McCann
I do remember getting this chart from an astrology website with this time of birth given, I think directly to the astrologer, but it was a long time ago. Anyway, that doesn't affect the position of her Jupiter, though it would her Moon which is squaring her Jupiter. Both Moon and Jupiter were transited by IsisTranspluto, on 3rd May 2007 at 27 degrees Leo 20 minutes. IsisTranspluto reached 28 degrees Leo 22 minutes on December 6th 2006, so was within 1 degree orb of Kate's natal Jupiter. For anyone unfamiliar with her story, it is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann

Kate's Saturn forms a weak 45 degree semi square to her Jupiter, far enough away to form separate entities. IsisTranspluto transiting her Saturn just prior to this event may have been a good transit. I am not sure how the IsisTranspluto transit works when Saturn and Jupiter are natally aspected, as they are antithetical to each other.


Another example of IsisTranspluto transiting natal Jupiter is Deborah Barham
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debbie_Barham
The time of birth is in a biography of her written by her father who was present at her birth. What is interesting is that in the 1990's, transiting Pluto in Scorpio would have opposed her natal Jupiter, which I would interpret as good, and later IsisTranspluto in Leo squared it, which I would interpret as bad. (There are maybe exceptions and reversals to this, which is why I am studying it). Her natal Jupiter is intensely aspected to a lot of the other planets in her chart, and definitely part of her talent. Jupiter opposes her Sun and Mars; Mars and Scorpio are definitely associated with comedians, rage and testosterone at their highest level.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2783
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fleur,

i encourage you to work with charts that have an AA rating, the best place to start is via astrodatabank... trying to conclude much off charts that are speculative is a recipe for more fuzzy headedness, not less.. the 2 chart examples you provide are more of the same... i can't take you seriously as a consequence!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 654

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
fleur,

i encourage you to work with charts that have an AA rating, the best place to start is via astrodatabank... trying to conclude much off charts that are speculative is a recipe for more fuzzy headedness, not less.. the 2 chart examples you provide are more of the same... i can't take you seriously as a consequence!!


The position of Jupiter and Saturn do not rely on a time of birth. A birth time is nice but often you won't have one. Even the element that I think might sometimes reverse this Jupiter and Saturn effect moves about one degree every 2.5 days so will be within one degree of aspect regardless of the time of day. There is nothing fuzzy about a one degree orb conjunction, square or opposition from IsisTranspluto, which is the slowest moving planet and can easily affect a decade of somebody's life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2783
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fleur,

the angles of the chart are most important.. without an accurate birth tiime you are fishing in the dark my friend and in a boat without much of a paddle too!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 906
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur, are you familiar with choice-centred astrology?

The premise is that every planet, sign, and house has multiple interpretations. For example, the 7th house could be marriage, a business partner, an open enemy, or litigation. Scorpio is the fixed water sign ruled by Mars, so a planet there might be emotional, aggressive, or steadfast; and a lot will depend upon the condition of Mars. Venus rules relationships, luxuries, peace, and something about women in one's life.

So, depending upon how the rest of the chart is put together, Venus in Scorpio in the 7th house could have multiple meanings. Some are more empowering than others. Does it mean legal difficulties with women? An intense emotional relationship? Then so much of one's life isn't even predicated by the horoscope. A horoscope doesn't even say whether you're male or female, without supplementary information.

Consequently, you have some choice in which interpretations of your chart and transiting planets you want to develop. It pains me when the Doom and Gloom School of Astrology gives the most negative possible reading of a given chart placement, without even considering alternative readings that are equally valid.

Saturn often gets a bad rap, but it goes better with its lessons learned of hard work, deferred gratification, and learning to get by on very little. It also rules old age, so if you learn its lessons as a young person, chances are you will have saved up for your retirement.

Does Mars merely make you irritable and aggressive? Or do you use it to take up tennis?

You get the picture.

Before you dismiss this out-of-hand, I will add that this is how I look at seemingly difficult natal chart placements and transits. Some years ago, I was facing all kinds of "bad" transits involving my sun, Saturn, and chart angles. For you mods, some heavy modern planets, as well. (My MC and AC axes are at right angles, so a planet pinging on one angle pings on all of them.)

So--- we did some house renos (IC,) sold the house, I retired (Saturn) early from my career (MC) and we moved across the country to a new retirement home (IC). It worked really well, and I greatly enjoy the freedom, despite the hit on my income.

I learned long ago that I was apt to get into arguments with people during hard Mercury-Mars transits. So I marked these dates on my calendar and worked hard to control my temper at those times. Today, I should think these would be good days to take a power walk around the neighbourhood.

Astrology-- and your life circumstances (male or female? white or visible minority?) give you certain parameters to work within, but you have some options as to how you make the best of your horoscope within those parameters.

If you're a real fatalist, however, you'd want to examine your spiritual and scientific views to see if they're logically sustainable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Philosophy & Science All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated